"The Prolife Blasphemy" videos are below. To view them fullscreen (recommended for seeing Bible text), click on the four arrows at the far right of the player ribbon. When you see a '360p' or '240p' button, click on it and change it to '1080p' for HD. You'll need that to clearly see the text. Episode 3 has added videos in its description, so you can test what Episode 3 says, pan-Bible. Presently, those added videos are download-only, or are only viewable in bliptv. The videos are simply live Word searches pan-Bible, to back up what I say in the Episode 3 face video.
brainout | 19 Aug 2015, 17:54
This is a new debate forum topic for the Youtube Prolife Blasphemy playlist, click here. Prolifers maintain the Bible says that abortion is murder. The series proves that the Bible says no such thing. In fact, verses like Exo21:22 prove that PER GOD, the fetus is not alive (not a legal person), and Psalm 139 (inter alia) proves that only God makes you a person at birth, along with the many 'I called you', 'I made you', 'I formed you' refrains in Scripture. Atop that, God even orders abortion in Numbers 5:27 for infidelity, a verse which shocks the translators. Proof of that, is in the nine-subpart Episode 9 of the PB series (click here for 9a and keep watching as much as you can stomach).
So prolifers are ignorant of Bible, lying against what it says. The series cannot hope to cover ALL the verses showing the prolifers wrong, but will cover the main ones. Series is not finished yet.
Word to the wise: don't keep repeating the same tired posts, and don't merely insult without substance. Notice how people who do that in the PB comments, come off as liars and fools. So: do you want to waste your time and make others see how foolish you are? I bet not.
Consequently, the seven-year old series has so many comments, all so unwieldy, it seemed a good to create a more-organized thread, here. You can instead ignore the videos and just debate prolife in general, starting whatever topics you want. Thus people can debate with each other, more easily. As for the series, since there are over 500 Bible verses saying you're not human until BORN, I'm obviously not done posting the proof, yet.
So as for me debating with you, basically 'no, I won't': everything I could say is in the foregoing video playlist, and in their video descriptions and comments. In short, I've already had my say. Time for you to have yours. You can argue against me all you want, call me any names you like, and your comments won't be censored. Also, I likely won't respond. Will read, but likely not reply, as my replies are already in the videos and their comments.
Therefore, the Youtube video comments are re-enabled: so, you are free to debate here, or there. So if you want to debate with me, you better have already done your homework in those videos, and/or in BIBLE. In the Hebrew and Greek, please. Because the translations of 'womb' verses mask the meaning, a political ploy as the videos demonstrate. Even the scholars know this, and do nothing.
No offense, I'm tired of people just getting emotional and not doing their homework IN BIBLE. What IT says, not what you want it to say. What IT says, not what some apostate and unreading Dear Dr. So and So says to politically motivate you. No politics, no religion, just God, just Bible. THOSE authorities I respect. Everyone else can go.. fish. And finally, I'm not pro-abortion, as I'm adopted and the BIBLE's own theme is -- BIRTH IS GOD'S CHOICE, NO ONE ELSE'S. That, is what the videos demonstrate, live in the Hebrew/Greek (inspired) text.
I'm pro BIBLE. So to misread or deliberately ignore what's said in the videos and claim I'm out to promote abortion is to make a fool of yourself. In public. So there's no need for me to respond.
Next, Prolife is used by David Duke to promote anti-semitism. If I see you post comments from him in this thread and defending him, you will be accounted an anti-semite and your post deleted. Posting alone, okay. Defending, not okay. For it's his political agenda, to destroy Israel, and it's been his agenda for over 30 years. Anti-semites are one step away from criminal. The board cannot tolerate threats to the people in it.
So... debate among yourselves..? Or, if you'll debate with me, PROVE IT FROM SCRIPTURE, not hearsay. That alone deserves respect. Not, brainout. Not, dear Dr. So and So, and not you.
In well over 300 Bible verses, God adamantly says life begins at birth, never before, Due To Adam's Sin. See Jas1:13-15, for the analogy to womb and the sin nature condemnation, to explain how temptation becomes sin only when 'born'.
| "No Womb Life": click this link for more about the verses. |
NOT BREATHING=NOT ALIVE. That's a Bible and biological fact. No fetus of any kind, animal or human, ever breathes in a womb; hence there can be no soul in a womb (brain requires INDEPENDENTLY BREATHED oxygen, for thinking). Gen2:7 says life comes through God breathing "lives" (lit. Hebrew) into the nostrils of a body outside and fully formed. You can ask any ob/gyn about how every nose of every fetus, is plugged: first act in delivery is to open the plugs so exhale can occur. Else, the fetus was never born. Bible translations LIE against the God-breathed original Bible texts. There's no 'kind' way, to state that fact. More about that fact follows both in the above "No Womb Life" link, and in the text below.
Divine Jurisprudence is rather different from prolifers and prochoicers believe; both sides are wrong, abortion shouldn't even be a political issue on either side, and Caesar has zero rights to make any rules. Let's see what and why. In any analysis about God, you start with God and go downward. Always start at the top. Click on the intra-page bullets below, or just keep on reading down the page (the intra-page links are always listed in order, in my sites):
For, God breathes (ruach=pneuma=Spirit='breath'='life'), so to speak, is Life; so, not breathing=not alive. In the fundamental sense, nothing breathes apart from God. Infinity is alive, infinitely. Everything else, is dead. Or, worse: it's hell to be alive and finite, even and especially while perfect.. unless integrated with God. Perfection is a horizontal condition. Since perfect, any change within one's own nature, is to lose that perfection. This would be true of God first, and thus of anything He creates. For, to be perfect means one is "beyond improvement", as my pastor likes to say. So to be finite and perfect, means there is no way for the creature of himself, to 'improve' in nature toward God. A greater hellish awareness for both "parties" (God and finite souled creation) could not exist. Forever separated, two parallel but not intersecting, 'universes of existence', so to speak: because the perfection of itself, cannot be improved. Unless, some Integration Mechanism With God, wholly created by, wholly run by, and from God as wholly a Holy Gift, can bridge that impossible gap...
So, because He paid at the Cross, we become eligible to be born again, and hence likewise eligible to be developed like Christ was -- but only because we are saved. If we weren't saved, we'd not be eligible. Now you see another reason why it's so vital to believe in Christ to be saved forever, and why no other solution, works. Even Christ had to be developed by the Holy Spirit, and that without the separation which sin engenders. So.. Romans 5:8. So.. we need to believe in Christ for salvation, to be joined to God (theme of Eph2, Heb2-4). From that point, it's a development issue: for one must be first born, in order to grow!
Note the fundamental dilemma faced in the eternity-past Decree to Create: finity is too inferior to Infinite Righteousness; unless a breathing-God's-thinking mechanism could be united to it, there should be no souled creation. So how to solve this problem? Obviously, only one way: pour Godness Attributes into finity. That makes verticality, growth toward God, possible. But how to do that? Well, Truth is God's Attribute; God's Attributes are "undivided", so every Attribute has all the other Attributes, in itself as well. So, if Truth can be PUT IN the finite being, then the being becomes (immaterially) bigger, and of Infinite Quality, no longer of finite quality. So no longer inferior: "He is not ashamed to call [us] brothers", Heb2.
For look: to be perfect and see Gorgeous God, yet have zero ability to 'improve' toward Him, so you can't reciprocate His Love -- well, better to never be born. That's why Satan rebelled, at heart: he didn't like the fact he himself of himself had nothing to offer. Satan faced the same problem as Christ would later face: gotta throw the self, away, to be caused to grow toward God. So gotta die, then, in one's thinking about self-worth. So, Satan concluded it's better to throw himself away to rebel, than (in his mind).. to grovel. I will make myself like the Most High, Satan concluded.. and thus fell, Isa14:14. So, Satan would offer the future Christ all the kingdoms of the world in Matt4, in order to save mankind from this God Who Grows You by Throwing You Away.
God, of course, foreknew all this, and isn't really throwing anyone away; but rather, Making Sons As Good As The Son, Who Is As Good As God. And He does this, by creating a series of pregnancies, according to Isa53's God-breathed text (and elsewhere). Huh? That's impossible and Unrighteous, though.. right? Well, it should be! For Righteousness is Uncreated. Because, God Is Uncreated. So Righteousness can never be 'made'; only, given. Hence 2Cor5:21, an act that Isaiah likens to birthing, in the Greek and Hebrew God-breathed Bible text, of Isa53.
Hence "born again", John 3. But wait! Birthing cannot be righteous, since even finite perfection isn't enough. True. But Christ threw away His Perfect Humanity, so to exchange it for bearing sin ("made sin", 2Cor5:21), so now what's left? 'His Thinking on the Cross, which paid for it all. (Again, Isa53 and elsewhere explain the mechanics.) So now, like Isaiah exults in Isa55, it's okay to be finite and Perfect, or even a sinner: since the uniting mechanism was
Romans 8:11 et. seq. uses this fact to draw analogy to how the spiritual life down here, is a kind of pregnancy -- a type of death, versus being in eternity, since our bodies remain dead-to-God. Again, due to Adam's sin (see Romans 5). James 1:13-15 uses the same pregnancy=death analogy, to show how temptation is not sin, until it is born via volition agreeing to it. So if you agree to sin, you agree to temporal death, which is solved by 1Jn1:9 (Ps32:5, 66:18 in the OT). So even death doesn't give birth to death, without breathing; you have to be breathing, to have volition, see. Soul is created at birth, not before: if you don't know that, you won't get what James is saying in Jas1:21 (answering 1:13-15, in Greek), and in James 1:1-2:26 (learn and believe the Word Is What Works works, not man: the inspired Greek says this -- English mistranslates, esp. v.2:22).
See, from Gen1:2 onward God draws analogy to deadness versus aliveness-to-Him. Pregnancy is in the deadness category, a "tohu wa bohu" (Gen1:2, Hebrew, status of the earth after creation and after Satan&Co. trashed it during their rebellion). So, when physically born, you are breathing, hence alive (Gen1:26-27, esp. Gen2:7). So, a new pregnancy starts: being born spiritually dead, we need the Gospel to become spiritually born (John 3). Being spiritually born, a new pregnancy period begins, with the goal of being spiritually developed to Pleroma/Teleios (Fullness (pregnant)/Completion, big Greek keywords in Bible, esp. the NT) -- Romans 8 is on this, especially beginning in v.11 et seq. [Almost none of this meaning is discernible in English, which fuzzes over the pregnancy metaphor Paul always develops in his letters. "Pleroma" is a humorous word, dating from Greek culture idea of a woman being impregnated by a god. So Paul loves using that word, playing on the Seed going in us. James apparently liked it also, given Jas1:21's "implanted Word". Too bad modern ideas of loving God feel it holy to abort His Word by covering up all the sexual meaning the Holy Spirit had the writers, write in Holy Writ. The entire reason why sex is sacred to heterosexual marriage, and any sex outside that union is sin -- is to portray the deeper union of the sacrosanct relationship with God via the Word being planted in you. Oh well.]
So born to eternity, bearing His Thoughts as children, having been grown up in His Thinking, is the goal of the post-salvation life (main theme of Romans 8 and all Paul's letters, especially Corinthians and Colossians). Unless that happens, the believer arrives in heaven "naked", no rewards (1Cor3). Because, he didn't get pregnant and come to term "in Christ" -- meaning, filled with His Thinking, the Seed of the Seed (Galatians). So, you must complete the course (aka "finish", in English Bibles, 2Tim4:8). Else, you lose. Deadness=Pregnancy. If you don't understand that fundamental, you will never get into and finish the spiritual life God ordained for Church. Period. Much more will be said on this sweeping topic later in this Caveat, for it is the high end of the topic about pregnancy versus birth.
So yes, abortion is an issue -- but not the kind of issue the prolifers claim. For, there is no life in the womb, but in you, once born -- and if you abort from the Gospel (conceiving it via hearing it, but not believing it, so not spiritually born) -- or, if you abort from the spiritual life (hearing its real meaning, but not carrying it to term), you are dead, even while living. Saved forever, if you even once believed in Christ -- but you aborted your royal life after salvation. So yes, abortion is the issue -- but not, physical pregnancy, which is dependent, hence no soul is ever in a womb. Volition can't learn anything until born (Ps139:14+16-17): so no soul is ever in a womb. [Ps139's translation lies against what Bible says in the God-breathed text. The "No Womb Life" link above has a white table that goes through enough Ps139:13-17 exegesis, so you can see the lie for yourself. Translations related to womb concepts always LIE, are not mere mistakes. More on this topic also follows later in this Caveat.] God breathed lives into Adam (lit. Hebrew, Gen2:7) -- after the body was formed, because only after a body is fully functional and independent, can an independent soul, exist there. It's that simple.
Satan is entirely and provably the author of the prolife campaign, even as he is always the author of any sex-related crusade: to abort Christians from their royal inheritance in Christ. But then, Christians just like to use God like a designer label, to impress themselves about themselves. So they get "strong delusion" from God: Satan&Co. are allowed to 'play' with them.
So, they don't see the patent analogy: the whole prolife thingy is just another satanic rehash of the ancient Greek Cybele and related phallic-female-worship cultures, kinda like Mariolatry. So if you value your own living soul at all, study carefully the points made in this Caveat and its links. Better still, find a pastor (mine is but one) who is aware that it's a flat lie to claim Bible says life is in the womb: Bible says life only begins at birth, in the original languages.
Bible, of course, stresses that living=breathing, dead/not-existing=not breathing, every time it talks about life, and especially when it talks about the mechanics and function of the spiritual life: it analogizes Circulation, especially of Breath, as in "Holy Spirit", our Spiritual-Life Birther And Sustainer, Titus3:5, John 3, 1Jn1:8-10, etc. BREATHING is the operative criterion for human life (e.g., neshemmah in Gen2:7b the paradigm of when life begins), and death (e.g., ekpsucho in Acts 5:5).
God has a right to be satisfied with what He creates. So He has a right to determine what will be created. So, the created beings themselves, within themselves and among themselves, have a separate set of finite rules; none of which, can do for God. So, God invented the separation of church-and-state when He gave Moses the Law. [Mosaic Law is divided into three parts for this reason: Greek-inspired LXX divides the civil from the spiritual using three keywords: entole (10 Commandments), dikiomata (the spiritual code, separate), and krimata (civil jurisprudence). If you have access to a Bible search program, search these keywords, see for yourself how Bible uses them. Or, do it based on the Hebrew equivalents, but it will be easier to see the NT uses of the same keywords, if you use the Greek inspired MSS.] Here's why: as Supreme Judge, God's Choice alone matters; so His Choice should not be murdered by either creating some standard Caesar imposes (whether pro- or con- abortion), nor by people imposing their standards on other people. God Is Our Maker And Our Sovereign, not us.
So consider this: A Birth Means A Thinking Being Which Father Will Forever Hear. So can only be God's Choice, never ours, whether such a being should exist. Just as we should seek God's Choice in all things; just as God communicates His Will via Scripture so we can know God's Choice in all things by Learning Scripture via 1Jn1:9 and Word study under our right pastors; so also, here.
Satan understands, but we humans do not, God's Innate Love Of Truth. He wants Omnipotence to serve Truth, not gerrymander it: even common sense would tell you that if you SIN, God must prefer you have the freedom to sin, rather than zap you so you couldn't, duh. So many Bible verses on this fact, even translations can't cover it up. Note two of them: Gal5:1, and John 8:32. Then there's Ps89:14-15. God will allow anything free to happen, because freedom is the foundation for Truth. Since He is perfect, it cannot compromise Him. So, you can 'murder' His Choice. After all, He wants no one to go to hell, either ("not willing that any should perish" concept in John3, Rom5:8, 1 or 2 Pet3:9, 1Tim2).
So God's focus is not narrowly political, like ours. First, this issue is about what God Sees And Hears. Hearing thoughts that displease, or hearing thoughts that please. KJV calls this "sweet savor". Every being He decrees exist He must forever hear. He's always heard such beings from before we were born (big point David makes in Ps139), since He is Omniscient. But think: He had to choose, first. Not us. Only God has the right to choose who will be born because it's to Him that all this thinking will occur. Secondly, when we sin, we first sin against God, and whether we also are sinning against each other is of no consequence, for we ourselves deserve nothing. So God must get paid (Satisfied, aka "Propitiation") for that and on HIS Terms, never ours. So what we think is to GOD first; what we think for selves or others, deserves nothing. So for us to have the arrogance to dictate who shall be born, to control that by law in any way, is worse than murder. How evil we all are, to look at each other, and forget all about, God's Choice!
As covered at length in LordvSatan2.htm, another controlling judicial issue is our condemnation in Adam. No-soul-in-womb is a Divine Juridical Issue Relating To Adam's Sin, for sin is in the thinking (body just 'obeys' thought), hence sin is not pleasing; hence, God's separation from us due to it. Hence the need for a Savior. Hence the woman is punished by means of childbearing (Gen3:15-16 is mistranslated, except in Brenton's English). That way, the sinful flesh develops apart from God's involvement. Hence no soul in womb because then God would be juridically touching sinful flesh, so to speak. When the fetus exits the womb, a juridical issue is forced, because the fetus then is capable of an independent existence: at which point, God must juridically choose to "breath lives" into it (Gen2:7's pattern, Hebrew), or choose to stand off. If the latter choice, the fetus never became alive.
So the origin-of-life issue centers juridically on His Perfection, and Righteousness May Rule to Abort. Spontaneous abortions occur all the time, so God must have ordered them: so is God a murderer? Of course not. Likewise, Righteousness may teach a pregnant mother to get an abortion, so she can learn an application of Scripture -- which God authored. Shall we dare abort her learning? Or, maybe she will become a believer (be saved!) as a result of such learning. Shall we abort her freedom to learn something God wants? So, then: shall we mere humans override Righteousness and impose our wimpy ideas of righteousness on others? Of course not. Then we are the aborters of His Word. Which we are, for Exodus 21:22 very clearly says the fetus is not a legal person. That's why it wasn't a crime, that the guy who accidentally hit the woman, caused the miscarriage. It was only a crime if he hurt the woman herself (vv.23ff).
Our condemnation in Adam as the controlling reason why no soul life is in the womb, is negated via Bible mistranslation. You can prove this, if you've sufficient access to the original-language texts and some generic-Bible software program like BibleWorks. The 'allegation' (until you see it for yourself as fact) of Bible mistranslation was mentioned earlier, but here in this Third Criterion, its blasphemy must be covered as an 'interruption': for the rampant mistranslation proves why God separates from the biological process; proves that Satan &Co. are behind the prolife/prochoice question.
Nice of God to allow blasphemy to teach us His Truth, huh... Once you see how the translations are mangled, you will understand Satan&Co. mess with translators so false doctrine can be innocently taught and believed: this is a major theme of my websites (with plenty of empirical proof you can test). See, since we've now had the original-inspired-language manuscripts in our public possession for over a century, our disinterest in God is more obvious, which is why Satan&Co. get to mess with us ("strong delusion" doctrine). That I could find the egregious mistranslations in BibleWorks, a non-sectarian collection of Bible MSS. and translations in many languages (plus typical lexicons), is a stunning indictment of our bad scholarship in Christendom. My pastor has taught no-life-in-womb for decades, but I'm only using BibleWorks for this Caveat, (i.e., as if I'd never heard him teach).
As the "No Womb Life" link explains in more detail, English Bibles reverse-translate nearly all verses which in the original-languages show there is no soul in the womb. It's a concerted effort, beginning with the first mistranslation in the very first announcement of no-life-in-womb, Gen3:16: only Brenton's translation gets it right. (You have to see the other translations compared to the original, to believe the egregious adding to the Word the other translations make.) The easiest verses to see reverse-translated, are those verses that have prepositions whose object is "womb".
BibleWorks software says there are 56 verses (in English Bible versions) in the OT with "womb" in them. Every one is reverse-translated. New Living Translation actually puts into Bible the term "womb" when it's not there (i.e., in Job 10:10). It is by no means the black sheep of the English translation family: they all are bad. Job 31:15, for example, uses Hebrew "asah" twice to distinguish that Job didn't become Job until outside the womb (Hebrew wouldn't need the second asah, else: it is a very strong statement that God didn't make anything in the womb -- English doesn't even translate the second asah). [New American Standard tried to translate the second asah, but its translation clearly makes no sense. When Bible's Hebrew doubles verbs (or clauses), it's always making a distinction between two disparate but related actions (or ideas).]
Occasionally a brave NIV translator will properly translate a "womb" verse, i.e., in Luke 1:15 ("from birth"). Yet keep MIStranslating the same original language words, with the reverse meaning, "in the womb", or "from the womb" in other verses. Trés bizarre. The other languages I can read often do the same. (Louis Segond will show more accuracy bravery, "des ta naissance", from your birth, Isa44:2. German "von" isn't really like the English "from", so I'm not sure if the German is mistranslated.) After all, it's supposed to be about God's Word, not politics.
Ps139:13-16 is partly exegeted in the "No Womb Life" link so you can see it for yourself: you don't need too much fancy Bible software, either, to confirm the meaning your way, independent of 'me'. Passage in the original languages uses a blow-by-blow explanation of why no life is in womb, to express awe that God would 'conceive'/decree our births, despite His Foreknowledge of our live sins. It's a Messianic passage, so couldn't be more important, to get 'right'. (Now you know why that other verse David wrote about being 'conceived in sin', means the sin nature. So, he shouldn't have been born.)
In sum: The God-breathed, original-language manuscripts flatly contradict the translations: you can prove how, word by word. You can prove the original-language manuscripts of Bible consistently say no soul is in the womb. You can prove how it blasphemes God Himself to claim soul life in the womb. Finally, you can prove that salvation wouldn't juridically work had a soul ever been within a womb. The "No Womb Life" link provides more details to back up this paragraph's seeming-assertions.
Saddest of all, as you peruse "abortion" links via Google or other search engine, you see an appalling lack of reference to the original languages. Since Bible translations in "womb" verses LIE against Holy Writ -- to spread translations, is to reject God Himself. The abortion links I could find that even had snippets from the original-language texts, wouldn't even pass first-year seminary in Biblical hermeneutics.
As we saw in the First Criterion, God must breathe into a thing/person, for it to even become alive. But for Our-God-Who-Loves-Justice (Ps89:14-15, Ps32:5, Ps139:16-17), that is a Justice issue: how is it JUST, to breathe into? Hence the 2nd Criterion, God's Own Satisfaction, recorded in Isa53:10-11 (see Isa53trans.htm or the shorter Isa53.htm, as Bibles don't translate the verses fully): will Righteousness be satisfied if this thing/person is made? See? It's a lot bigger question, than we 'Christians' imagine, since we are dead-to-God, 1Jn1:9 not being used to get His Brains to teach us about the real meaning of what's 'prolife'...
CRUX: So God Holiness won't 'touch' the sin-in-Adam fetus until it exits the womb, because only @exit is there an INDEPENDENT entity requiring jurisprudence: condemnation with Adam's Original Sin (i.e., 1Cor15:22, Jas1:13-15). If and only if He makes that condemnation, will God choose to "breathe" a soul into it, which makes it human, and thus immediately save-able! Christ died for all sins, including Adam's, see: is Our God brilliant, or what?! [By the way, if you are under my pastor, his term "point of contact" in the year 2000+ lessons (series 376, Spiritual Dynamics) tie in here, though this Caveat 4 was originally written not knowing that information.]
Note God's Grace: if we are not born condemned, the Cross couldn't occur. If not born condemned, then all those lives who die early -- because in freedom, bad health -- all those who died too young get automatically saved. If not born condemned, we'd have no way of learning Love, because clearly if we can be born condemned, our puny natures don't interfere with God's Love: He doesn't love us due to what we are and can do -- He just plain loves us. All this, we immediately and conclusively know, solely because the woman is punished with childbearing. Like Paul quipped somewhere in Timothy (2Tim2:15?) to show how grace works, the woman will be delivered (sozo, usu. mistranslated "saved") by delivery (childbearing). So too, all mankind! What a Gorgeous God we get to know.
All other creating/making verbs in the original languages, are for inanimate or non-souled biological 'life' (i.e., animals): this is but one major category of what the translations, obscure. For example, "knitted" is only used for cloth, clouds, or other nonliving material. So when David uses those types of verbs in Ps139, you can't mistake a claim of no soul life in a womb. Check out this claim for yourself, in the "No Womb Life" link.
Cardinal principle of hermeneutics (Bible Interpretation) is that you compare Scripture with Scripture. Especially, starting with the foundation on which a doctrine is based (i.e., God's Attributes). Especially, in the original languages. Another Cardinal rule of translation is that you don't impose the language conventions of the translation language on the original. But this prohibited imposition is frequently done in translations. So it's not poetic Hebrew/Greek to misconstrue inanimate creating verbs for animate ones, since Bible only uses one type of verb to denote immateriality: breathing/breath/spirit -- get it? [Dingdongs use English poetry rules to justify treating the Hebrew qanah as "create" -- which it never means anywhere in Bible: do the search yourself. (Hint: Hebrew's related to Decree, salvation, ransom, redemption, not creation.)]
From what I can find on the web, those who purport to exegete the Hebrew to support pro-life positions don't do their homework: although they should, they don't compare Scripture's uses of its keywords, pan-Bible.
Stated more humorously: the prolifers are right in the "pro", and the pro-choicers are right in the "choice". But both sides left out "God". So, the 'sum', the correct answer, is: Be Pro God's Choice. Leave Caesar Out Of It.
Rebekah consulted God about her tumultuous pregnancy, see; so anyone else should consult GOD, not Caesar.Now, let's return to the Second Criterion, What God Hears and Sees is the Juridical Basis for any Choice He makes, viz., about who will be born.. or, aborted. What follows will seem to go way off-topic for awhile, in order to weave in what is God's Choice panoramically. Gotta see the big picture, before you can fit together the puzzle pieces: for, if a doctrine is correctly stated, all the pieces will fit together at all levels. Else, an error is present, somewhere. Important: the Bible makes literally hundreds of often deft-and-quick analogies to the deadness of pregnancy versus the liveness of birth to illustrate things like live versus dead works and other spiritual life doctrines. So those who misinterpret Scripture to construe life is in the womb, will misinterpret doctrines vital to their spiritual lives. Hence this big-picture 'digression' is important to cover. [All my sites elaborate on what follows. Goal here is to provide but a quick summary, so just test the doctrinal logic as best you can or as much as you're inclined. This is a huge topic to condense accurately, so it might be hard to follow, here.]
Let's start analysing this question at its simplest level. What is God's Choice about our relationship with Him? Well, as we just saw with Rebekah, His Policy is always the same: "Ask Me." Of course, you don't ask Someone you don't first believe in, get it? See 2Chron 7:14, a prayer every Christian should pray as a good citizen of his home country. (NT counterparts are exemplified in 1Tim2, Rom13.) Of course, if the person thinks "Me" is a counterfeit god-name or person, then no real "Me" gets the request. Because, any "Me" but the Real God, is dead. Sterile. Stillborn. See Isa44. For, Satan rules this world; so apart from being properly asked for His Involvement, God stands off. Because, sin is in the world, and Holiness can't justify 'touching' it without Juridical Cause. So, no one gets blessed who is negative, unless someone else asked for it, propitiated Father in some way (i.e., the Cross!); or, some other juridical basis exists, i.e., a wicked person maybe prospers because a righteous person needs it; just as we prosper because Christ chose to 'need' us -- see also Ps37, end of Jonah.
Now we all know God's Choice is that all be saved; we equally know that not all get saved, because not all believe. Notice how "ask" and "believe" mean the person is positive to God. So, that's a relationship issue, not a religious one. Do you want God, or not? Maximum wanting of God, of course, is maximum intimacy. So, like marriage. So, like childbearing due to marriage (wanting to share progeny with your spouse). So, the inspired Hebrew and Greek text of Isa53 liken the Cross to a pregnancy in order to birth sons-of-God (see also Heb2, Galatians, and Isa53.htm). You won't see the Isaiah53 wordplay in translation, but you can see Isa54:1 is about childbirth (it's a climactic statement). (Isa53trans.htm retranslates the whole chapter (which starts in 52:13) so you can more clearly prove out what's said here.)
For, Cross propitiates, so justifies Divine juridical involvement. But, as you know, the individual must believe in Christ to be saved: that's another way of illustrating that God chooses to wait for us to ask (i.e., "seek" verses).
Hence post-salvation, the "asking" is to Learn Scripture. So, as the Lord repeatedly explains in the Gospels, believers are to be "salt" as part of Christ. Preserving our eaten food (Bible, food metaphor like in Matt4:4). We are a crop to grow up and be harvested. Note how, in either case, a process is depicted which must complete in order to be born/effective. You don't get nourishment by merely conceiving the food, you must eat it completely. You don't harvest a crop that isn't ripe, either....
So if we aren't eating, we are "saltless", for the salt is preserving nothing; we're not asking to know God, we're not interested in God, so we're a curse to our home countries, not a blessing. Likewise, if we are not using 1Jn1:9 (see its context) we are also saltless, for it takes the Spirit's power to spiritually breathe. So, Father likes hearing us eat His Son's Thinking (Bible), so can justify 'spending' His Pleasure on the world around us. For our sake, and theirs. Just as the fetus has to exit for a judicial issue to exist, so also a birth/breathing spiritually justifies the refreshing breeze of Divine Blessing. Greek word for "spirit" also means "wind", see. Wind is the reason for all climate, good or bad, and accounts for why a given area may be balmy, but its next-door neighbor, buried in snow. Stopping the wind kills this Earth more quickly than any bomb can: much of what goes wrong in the Tribulation is due to how the wind behaves: especially, if it stops. So too, for Divine Blessing's 'breezes'. Angels control these winds, i.e., in Rev7:1. So weather is not random. Blessing is never random.
Do you see the parallel? Choice is always involved with some type of 'birth', by Divine Design: choice to believe in Christ, choice to learn Him via Scripture. God doesn't coerce choice, and instead wants us to ask Him: "seek and ye shall find", not "I force you to find." Note also how blessing depends on choice as well: here, to those not choosing to know Him, because we are learning Him, even as we didn't choose for Christ to go to the Cross, but He chose that (see 2Pet2 on this topic, esp. v.21 in the Greek). So, our choices affect the well-being of the entire planet ("salt", "remnant" verses). Clearly if God won't coerce, we shouldn't either.
Bigger still, our choices affect our own growth for all eternity. For, God's Idea of "prolife" and "pro-choice" is to make us a lot like His Son (main theme in Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, Galatians). God can indeed do this at the Level of His Son: that Heb2 verse, He is not ashamed to call us brothers, isn't merely nice talk, say-awww-here: but, be awed here! We all underestimate His Power in the name of being 'humble'! So we forget the common-sense conclusion that God wouldn't like living with 'lower-thans', forever! Only the Bible's God is structured so that juridical compensation DUE is paid. For, if God is not fair to Himself, He wouldn't be able to be fair to anyone else. Hence, the Trinity Corporation, so that salvation can be juridically independent. (Greek of 2Cor 13:14 displays a voluntary Corporation of Three Gods, forget all those councils: Bible is infallible. DueDisclosure.htm has much more on this topic.) For the same reason, His Goal is to make us like The Most High, for highest compatibility with The Most High. (This is a major theme in all my websites, and "Thinking" series plus DueDisclosure.htm have the most documentation on why Trinity, apart from the salvation issue. Clearly They aren't God solely for the sake of providing salvation, lol!)
For, Christ Himself was thus Built, In The Truth; thus He Became "The Way, The Truth, and the Life". Became, in His Humanity, not merely had the Truth in Him! Christ was held together on the Cross by the Truth He Knew; He paid for our sins with His mastery of that truth (Isa53:10-11, Phili2:5-10, Heb12:2, other passages). [Isa53:10-11 in translation misses some of the God-breathed text. See Isa53.htm for the full text. See Isa53trans.htm for the full chapter, since the first principle of hermeneutics (fancy word for 'finding' Bible's Own Interpretation of Itself) is that you analyze Scripture IN context.] Sins are "true" in that they are real. So, Truth applied to truth, and we become the Righteousness of God IN HIM. So, the Same Structural Integrity is to be built in us, with the same Total Love results (2Cor5:21, esp. in context from v.14, Rom5-8, 1Cor13, etc). Since it took even Him 30 years to become 'built' enough, obviously for us this is a lifetime process. Requiring second-after-second of discrete consents.
His Son's Thinking must therefore be poured into us (e.g., Rom5:5, "Love" being the Water of the Word); and we don't get that Thinking until a) saved, and b) pursuing learning Him. Only via this method do we grow spiritually. That growth requires the Holy Spirit's Power, hence the need to breathe 1Jn1:9. Not only is our own ability totally insufficient; but Christ radically upended the spiritual life, not using even His Own Power, but rather the Spirit's. Meaning, the Mosaic system, which did employ human power, is obsolete (e.g., per Heb7:18).
Truth is not merely a collection of facts: that's just the 'truth' portion of Omniscience. Instead, Truth is a Reproducing Structure, more like a building, a complete organism, like math: relationship-formulas that always work, yet are infinitely changeable, depending on the applicable parameters. Of course, God is Truth, and thus Truth is Living, not a dry collection of laws. So, God wants us to get that Truth in us, so we will think as His Son does.
As for the reproducing-structure nature of truth, you can prove that fact right now. You are reading these words. They stay on the page. Yet, have reproduced in your head. So the "truth" reproduced in your head, since the 'truth' is, these words exist, and were reproduced from a different head than your own. Thought is immaterial. God is Immaterial. Hence, innately reproducing. Infinity, as my pastor likes to repeat, is intensive, not extensive. So God can replicate His Own Thinking without mass/energy, spacetime, loss, etc. Living, Thinking. Not some animistic depersonalized 'force'. In us! Through Christ!
Development of the Truth in us thus has a developmental effect on volition. This is why we still have free will after we die, yet never again sin. It's not magic, but learning. That one dot of truth, the Gospel being believed, is like an embryo with respect to this grander purpose: it sets the floor on never sinning post-death. Heh: belief Christ paid for all your sins births you spiritually even while down here; but immediately that spiritual birth sets up another pregnancy: the potential to become Pleroma (sotto voce theme of Romans 8, 1Cor3, 12-13). Like Paul explains in all his letters, the goal post-salvation is to get this structure of Christ's Own Thinking built atop that salvation (i.e., Eph3:15-19) so you stop being a "child" (Gk:teknon) and instead become teleios, "mature". Or, using his other frequent analogy, 'growing' the embryonic salvation into a fully mature 'childbearing' spiritual adult. [See 1Cor14:20 & Gal4:19's pregnancy metaphor; Rom12:2, Eph4:13, Phili3:15ff Col1:28, Jas 1:4 vs. Heb5:11ff and Eph4:17ff] For, we will all variantly choose to learn Him, so the high thinking among the child bearers ("Pleroma", in Bible's Greek) thus synergizes with all those who did not grow up down here; to make an eternal 'economy', a polity. In short, kingdoms. Forever producing thinking Father loves to hear, as any Royal Priest is supposed to do, heh. What a future!
So in the original languages (but not translations), Bible is forever making analogies to our post-salvation life by recourse to sexual/ marital/ maturation metaphors, to show the bonding is a process which must COMPLETE. In fact, because there's so much stress on the process, many people misread Scripture and think you can lose salvation, or go to purgatory.. or whatever. This misreading is even more pronounced, if you are not Filled with the Spirit (continual use of 1Jn1:9); even more, if using a translation, as well. Hence pulpits but not Bible, stress body-works; Bible stresses learning Him as the "work" which doesn't get burned up at the Bema (1Cor3, Rev4:1). People twist Bible to stress what man does, rather than what God does; what man wants, rather than what God wants. So, people end up spiritually sterile. Fruitless wombs, all. Spiritual abortions. (Paul makes this very analogy in Romans, Galatians, Corinthians; as did the Lord, in His parables; but of course you won't find it easily in the English. It's a big topic, not to abort yourself from God.)
We're not here to whitewash the devil's world. Instead, we are all here to get 'pregnant' with Doctrine: that's what "Pleroma" means. That Greek word, usu. translated fill or fulfill, really has a very heavy pregnancy connotation in Greek lit., which Bible frequently uses as wordplay: Greek myths were always about gods begetting with humans. So to be "Pleroma" meant pregnant with a god's child, or pregnant with the god's thinking. That's why the phallic cult was so popular. God, Who has the Best Sense of Humor, uses this fact often to teach His Plan for us. So, Bible uses this term in wordplay for pregnancy, i.e., all over Romans 8. So, another Greek word, "teleiow" (usu. translated end, finish, but really means to complete, or perfect a contract) is used to denote the Completion of Pleroma: so you can bear spiritual children in the Mill and Eternal State. All this, as propitiation for Father, to hear such high levels of Son's Thinking.
Result of God's Begetting His Son's Thinking in you? Infinite-Quality Truth Is Supposed To Cycle within your soul: the Word of God is Alive And Powerful, not a catechism. "Love Table" link explains this purpose in much more detail, as does the first four bullets in "Divine Physics" link. Basically, the purpose is to reproduce God's Own Thinking Structure of Will+Truth. What we call His "Attributes" are characteristics of Will+Truth, Living. Thoughts all connect in some way. "But My ways are not your ways, nor My Thoughts your thoughts", He says in Isa55. So, the Son paid for sins and -- more importantly, left us His Thinking as our spiritual legacy (John 7:39, 1Cor2,6,12,13, Romans 8; 2Pet2:2-21, Heb4 tied to Isa53:10-12, Heb8:8-12 compared to Heb10:15-17 in Greek; all "Christ in you" verses, to name a few). So the objective is to have that structure complete. Until it's complete, some 'DNA' is missing, get it?
See, God's Choice is for you to really be as high as He is, to think of self and others and things the same way as He does; because, that Same Way, is most compatible to His Own. Which highest-compatibility Christ prayed for via the "oneness" (sexual metaphor, really), in John 17.
Ergo, as is always true even in all secular things, a type of HUPOSTATIC relationship is created by this developing Living Truth Scripture Structure, bonding with your will; for, you must want to learn and live on His Thinking every second (Holy Spirit will never coerce). Christ is God-man. We are to be united to Him as "Body", "Bride". Those aren't just cute words to make us feel good. They are structural metaphors. So, we are to be transformed (the true, as opposed to chippie evolutionist, "transmutation"). To have His structure in our souls. Therefore, it doesn't matter what we are now, but what we are to BECOME; therefore, sins, etc. don't matter -- they are but training aids.
Therefore, it doesn't matter that we are finite, because the Infinity can progressively cycle inside the structure: it reaches full operational capacity, once the structure is completed. From what I can tell, sometime during the "Evidence Tests" (my pastor's term for the last growth stage of our Royal Spiritual Life) this structural completion occurs. Then it operates (kinda like a steel mill) at full capacity for a short time (i.e., in the Lord who authored this system, three years), then.. Tetelestai, Victory finishes, and God takes you home. That's how Christ in His Humanity Became the Truth, Righteousness, etc.; which He had to BECOME, to have the requisite strength to think Truth in 'reply' to our sins while ON the Cross. Remember, He ran the universe from His Humanity (a fact my pastor stresses, whenever he reviews the nature of His Hypostatic Union). Why do you think Satan tempted Him to use His Own Deity, in Matt4? [LordvSatan3 and ~4.htm explore this topic with much documentation and accounting. DueDisclosure.htm is a shorter explanation, and as to the judicial issues, is even better. Paradox.htm covers the Angelic Trial whys so you can see what underlies the judicial issues, and DDNA.htm covers the 'spiritual genetics' of it (for lack of a better term, since the way Truth transmutes you, happens the same way RNA-DNA interactions work).]
So, we need to learn and then live on Bible Doctrine. Holy Spirit thus runs the show, and the entire process is very much like a developing fetus. Which comes to birth, so to speak, in the eternal state (theme of last half of Romans 8). So if all the parts to this structure don't finish being made, the believer ABORTS his inheritance (but retains salvation), because
So, think: developing fetal body parts can't get Bible Doctrine, can't choose Gospel, so it's outright stupid and counter-productive to God's Choice that a human soul ever be in the womb. The necessary body-soul interaction can't occur. So, even if you only knew God's Choice for us from birth onward, a Choice which frankly even common sense can deduce (God is thought, has no body needs, so we need to develop our thinking), you would conclusively know that He never puts a soul in a womb. There would BE no Christ, else.
So, think: developing fetal body parts can't get Bible Doctrine, can't choose Gospel, so it's outright evil evil evil to remove God's Choice about whether a fetus should come to term. If you put the choice in Caesar's hand, you've murdered God's Choice about how much sweet savor thinking He wants. If you put the choice in your own hand, you've also murdered God's Choice.
Remember the 2nd Right-to-Life Criterion? God Hears The Thinking of any soul He makes. So He, not us, should be the Only One to dictate how He wants any pregnancy handled. Since He makes His Choice clear in Scripture, nothing outside of Scripture has any overriding authority. So Leave Caesar Out Of It. Read Matt7:1-2 before involving yourself in activism.
Frankly, Satan uses activism to get Christians judged. "Angelic Trial" link at pagetop goes over that topic in excruciating detail. "Satan's System" link is a long webpage, but its "prolife" section shows how Satan fools prolifers and aborts their spiritual lives. Every website has something on this topic, for it is the quintessential satanic expression of his Rev17 harlot. Bubonic plague is less deadly, than Christian activism. Christian activism is the scariest thing in this world, period.
There's no pain in heaven, aside from the Bema Day (Rev4:1, 1Cor3, etc). But on that Day, we will clearly see the differential between the horror-knowledge of how stupid we were, and the happiness-knowledge of how Gorgeous God is. We ourselves will demand the justice of distance from Him, physically: sorta like those demons who went bonko when Christ came near them (i.e., Matt8:29ff). You know how you feel facing someone close when you've done a really bad thing of which you are completely aware: how much more, once you have perfect awareness? So, our own senses of accurate Justice will then be perfectly acute; so we wouldn't want too much proximity to Him, on the very grounds of Justice; since irrevocably saved, we'll yearn to be sent to the then-equivalent distance of Pluto, for crying out loud. So will be relieved at our Bema evaluation, due to what we will then forever know of our own evils against Him.
