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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 06:50 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
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There has always been a popular trend with people who enforce works salvation / lordship salvation that anyone who commits suicide is going to hell autonomously bypassing grace and bypassing the cross. Not only that but there are a lot of people claiming 'life after death' experiences. When you put the two together you get somebody who is very mixed up.

The video in question is one with Tamara Laroux on Pat Robert's program (I just happened across it, I don't watch the 700 club or Pat Robertson, nor do I advocate ANY of it):

So this is the outline Tamara gives us:
#1 she heard a voice: 'remove that from your head and place it at your heart'
#2 she 'got a vision' what she would look like if the gun went off in her face / moved the gun to the chest instead
#3 soul left the body at the speed of light with a "falling" sensation
#4 acidic burning sensation -- in a place of torment

Right off the bat christians (or any religious person) immediately say they hear voices or get visions, and that determines their actions and 'how it all happened'. Right? So they're attributing these events to some supernatural intervention that they ASSUME is God, inevitably. This is a very common pattern in demonology or self-delusion. It's possible the demons could have implanted the voices and visions to start the whole thing, or it could just be a hallucination generated by herself.
I think the "pain" experienced once she claims she's in hell, is due to the fact that she just shot herself...
my soul turned into a being of fear
That's total nonsense and she doesn't understand that the soul requires a body; and never brings up the issue that you would have to be in a post-death body.
I could see thousands of people all around me but I was unable to communicate with them
Oh really? Well the rich guy was able to communicate to Abraham in Luke 16:24, so she turns the Bible into a lie.
a sea of people... many chambers... all of the people that were there were in the same formless being screaming out in agony
This is a strange statement because she says that there were discreet individuals and then changes and implies they were all one being. Inconsistencies are indicative of not knowing what you're actually talking about.
Also, she doesn't make mention of Abraham's "pad" across the gulf which is described in Luke 16:23. Would you think if someone was actually in hell that it would ALIGN with what the Bible says???
I remember looking at a particular individual.... and when I saw them I knew everything about them: I knew every sin that they had committed, my knowledge about their life was completely full, I knew everything that they had done wrong, I knew their thoughts, I knew their emotions, I knew their will, I knew everything that I can think upon my wisdom was in its fullness. It was like a harvard degree instantly. *laughs* but it didn't matter. In that hideous state of that burning torment, the only knowledge that mattered was that Jesus Christ was Lord. And here I am in this state of indescribable agony, and the only that mattered was that I never surrendered to the lordship of Jesus Christ.
Why would you 'know' every sin that someone has committed prior to the judgment? That's not even relevant in hell. Also souls don't have "emotion", this is a function of the biology exclusively--which I believe is the cerebellum. So how could you sense emotion in a soul that lacks a physical human body (let alone no mention of a post-death body which wouldn't have a cerebellum anyways).
And LOOK AT THAT!!! Right away she goes to claim the works salvation line "Jesus was Lord" and then the money shot where she says she never "surrendered" to Christ's lordship. Woah woah woah... salvation = belief + 0 (belief and only belief). Where is this "lordship" of Christ and where is this mention of having to surrender to Christ?

We have a few questions to ask and resolve if we had to surrender to Christ:
#1 WHAT exactly would we be surrendering? And if we had to, wouldn't surrendering anything to Christ just be giving back to Christ what is Christ's?
Matthew 19:17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:17 ὁ δὲ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· τί με ἐρωτᾷς περὶ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ; εἷς ἐστιν ὁ ἀγαθός· εἰ δὲ θέλεις εἰς τὴν ζωὴν εἰσελθεῖν, τήρησον τὰς ἐντολάς.
Only Christ is "good", so what do WE have to surrender?
1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your belief is futile; you are still in your sins.
1 Corinthians 15:17 εἰ δὲ Χριστὸς οὐκ ἐγήγερται, ματαία ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν, ἔτι ἐστὲ ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν,
If Christ didn't pay for our sins WE WOULD STILL BE IN OUR SINS, therefore if we had to "surrender" *our* surrendering would take precedence over Christ's payment. Which is totally unbiblical.

#2 Why would Jesus need people to patronize Him by saying "He is Lord"?
John 4:24 God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.
John 4:24 πνεῦμα ὁ θεός, καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν.
Mindless statements and emotional responses "oh I love Jesus" / "oh Jesus is Lord" have nothing to do with worshipping God since it's BIBLE DOCTRINE in your head. Saying those things is no different from someone "worshipping" a rock with a face painted on it.

To conclude, if you commit suicide it has ZERO bearing on your state of salvation. It's definitely not a good thing since you abort your kingship, but again not an issue of salvation.

People who attribute special events that happened to them via voices / visions and then write a book about it (because hey, clearly God wants everyone to write a book to make a profit on it) are nutcases. The BIBLE is complete. God doesn't need 'your help', so anyone buying the books of these charlatans should think twice and instead read the Word: that's how God speaks.

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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 18:20 
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Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1846
Wow, another good rant. Why do we believers want God and the Holy Spirit and the supernatural to be like a circus? Did you ever see that HBO (incomplete) series, Carnivale? It's free in Prime right now. :mrgreen:

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