FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

Since RB Thieme has been mentioned here in this board, I ought to make a topic of how you can obtain the material. This topic is not meant to 'sell' anything he says. Whether you should listen to this person or anyone, is a matter between God and you, or (if you don't believe in God), you and you.

Thieme's material is copyrighted, and his son changed the terms; so now, it can only be given away, else must be ordered from https://www.rbthieme.org . They don't charge money, don't ask for money, don't put you on a mailing list; and if I recall properly, they limit the number of lessons you can order, per month. You can use the above link to find out the current limits and terms, if any. You cannot listen to the classes online, which is a pity.. but that's their policy.

There are pdfs you can download, to help you decide what, if anything, to order. But you must order at that above link, and must call or write your order in. You cannot download the classes, that's part of the copyright. Which means, no one (like me, for example), can upload the classes even without edit or charge. So the pdfs are:

https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonList ... eb2014.pdf
https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/Illustrations.pdf
https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/DVD_Catalogue.pdf

Part of the reason for this strident 'protection', is due to people misusing Thieme's material over the previous decades, to get money from people listening to him, or to misquote him. In particular, the King James Onlyists like Peter Ruckman and his minions, are fixated on Thieme. I didn't know that until going to Youtube, and then being pursued by edwardpf123, starting in what's now labelled 9/72 KJVOB video, which was actually the first one done. Sadly, edwardpf123 lied and pretended he was a Thieme student in Houston during 1981-1985; as it turned out, his pretense happened to be made during the very years I was personally attending in Houston. That's why I had to make the KJVOB series: to learn why the fixation and prove that KJVO is totally anti-Biblical (and anti-semitic, which is its core goal, to diss the Hebrew and Greek of original Scripture, so to diss the Jewish origin of it all).

Many others abused his material too, as Thieme briefly had his own 15 minutes of fame (i.e., with Time Magazine writing an article on him in the 1980's, and other like stuff prior). So there were (and still are) many groupies and folks who want to demonise him -- all because he was briefly 'famous'.

So you can understand why Berachah would want to keep 'pure', the Thieme classes. So people can see for themselves, what was and wasn't said, straight from the horse's mouth. So although personally I don't agree with Berachah's year 2003 et seq. policy to restrict the availability of Thieme's materials, I understand it.

But you can get whatever you want from them, free without money begging letters or being put on someone's mailing list.

I can answer questions like a librarian, about what he says and where you can find it in the classes, but I'd rather you investigate for yourself. I am not here to sell what he says. I do have the live recorded classes for pretty much everything he's taught, on reels (and some cassettes); and have heard, many of those classes. Have been a student of his since 1971, but dilettante until 1981.

So if you want me to look up something, I can. If you want me to summarize, I can, with citations where you can compare my summary to what was actually said. But I'm not interested in proselytizing you. That's God's job, not mine: Greek 'martureo', usually translated witness, is a PASSIVE verb, meaning some attorney subpoena's you into the witness box, and on trial in public you answer questions put to you.

The other witness verb is angellw, which means 'to tell, announce, herald', meaning some minor official of a king repeating the message of the king, which message is a 'gospel' (euangelion), from which we get the English 'gospel' and 'evangelise'. So announcing is not proselytizing, either. So you're under no pressure, but rather merely given due diligence disclosure.

Not at all, the salesman garbage that Christians advertise.

No one can sell another on the teachings of RBT. Any pastor for that matter. Ironically, my first positive response to R.B.Thieme came when I was in Bible college while listening to a person in authority who was teaching on a topic. In his discourse he mentioned Thieme's opinion on the subject. He gave Thieme's perspective in a derogatory way.

I did not know who Thieme was at that time. As I sat there being told what Thieme's perspective was, I said to myself.. "Whoever this 'Thieme' is? I agree whole heartily!" I suddenly saw the one criticizing what Thieme taught as being stupid/ignorant concerning the topic. Before then, I saw him as being quite advanced to me.

It was with just the opposite of salesmanship that I was won over. Through criticism. It left me with a positive impression of whoever this RBT was. While in school I read a few books of his that were to be found in the school library, and was given by another student some recorded messages to listen to. One day I found myself listening around a tape player with a small group of students. Some were repelled by what he taught, and others positive. Those repelled were from a fundy background that never heard exegesis before. They did not like objective correction of their cherished traditional beliefs. Then, no more messages for some time. It would be a few years before I finally found out about ordering for myself the teachings of Thieme. That was sometime in 1981. Have not looked back since. You need to see if he is right for you. RBT has said many times that he is not for everyone. That God has a right pastor for each one of us.

_________________
God has two dwellings:
one in heaven, and the other
in a meek and thankful heart.
Izaak Walton
(1593-1683)

RBT never gives an actual passage that shows in the Greek that the soul of Jesus was created. He just went with what was commonly accepted amongst orthodoxy. That is not something that can be shown in the Greek. That is. Unless you can provide a passage that teaches God created a soul at the point of birth for Jesus. It was simply assumed as far as all the teachings I ever heard. And, it states in Philippians 2 (in the Greek) that the union was eternal. The web page I do use as a reference http://www.syndein.com/books.htm has been approved by Bobby. They made sure it lined up with the Colonel's teachings.

http://www.syndein.com/Philippians_2.html



{Christ in Eternity Past then the Hypostatic Union as He is today in Heaven
and always will be}6~~Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed
in the essence of God, He did not think equalities {plural} with God
a gain to be seized {means to violently take}and held {so that the Father's plan
would not be neutralized}.

{Note: There is no 'robbery' here. He did not have to get equality with God the
Father and God the Holy Spirit, because He already HAD it! Christ as deity in eternity
immediately accepted God the Father's plan for him to leave heaven and become
human in hypostatic union. He did not consider this a loss because he still was/is
100% deity also. Just as Christ agreed to do His part of God the Father's plan, we
should continue to move forward from SuperGrace A into no man's land of Super
Grace B and on to UltraSuperGrace.}

7~~But He Himself {Christ} deprived Himself of the proper function of deity
when He had received the 'inner essence'/form of a servant/slave
although He had been born in the outward likeness/image of mankind.

{Note: Outwardly Christ's humanity looked the same . . . inside He was
different in that He was not born with an Old Sin Nature and He never
created one by sinning}.[/size]





I have not been gifted to be an exegete. But, I have a keen interest in those who can. I did run by someone I know who studies all the time. He conferred that the Greek of Philippians 2:6 states that the one we call now Jesus was eternally existing. Just as this RBT translation also states.

_________________
God has two dwellings:
one in heaven, and the other
in a meek and thankful heart.
Izaak Walton
(1593-1683)

Gene, what you wrote is not true, and it's in the wrong place. Please cut your post from here and move it to the Incarnate thread you created. There we've been arguing about this, and can there continue. There, I already gave you the classes where Thieme talks about the soul's creation both with respect to humans, and to Jesus Christ. There are many classes, and he's quite explicit. He's also famous for saying the Lord's Soul was Created At Birth, and got in trouble for it, among the 'mainstream' Christians. So his Bible proof was frequent and copious.

When you move your post, I'll delete this one. Let's not confuse others by scattering the topic where it doesn't belong. Thank you!

I would move it if I wanted to continue it. I do not wish to. Thieme did say that. Yes.. But, never by exegesis of a specific passage speaking specifically of Christ. What I always heard (and never questioned) was simply stated as fact while doing exegesis about the human soul at birth. Or, when covering the birth of Christ. It was simply an assumed position.

Now, if you can give me a specific lesson that does exegesis on specifically Jesus' soul in that passage? I will stand corrected. But what you offer me is telling me to hunt through hundreds of messages. I have heard many over the years about the humanity of Christ. Now? I would love to see such a message where a passage states explicitly that Jesus' soul was created at birth. I have heard only RBT stating it as an assumed fact. Many times.

And, I do not know why main stream Christianity would be complaining about Jesus having a human soul, other than the issue of what Thieme taught about when the soul was imputed.

I have heard the Colonel state that Jesus had his soul imputed at birth. But always as an assumed position. Not shown while exegeting a specific passage in regards to mentioning the actual imputation of Jesus' soul. What I heard stood simply as an unquestioned assumption.

Another thing. One you probably are well aware of. The Colonel has corrected several things he taught over the years. One I recall, was how he used to teach that the sin nature resides in the soul. Later, when teaching Romans, he corrected it to the flesh.

I have no antagonism to the Colonel's teachings. I simply find in a few instances myself forming a different interpretation, yet formed because of his exacting and precise translation. Colonel Thieme's teaching restored my sanity. I have no desire to challenge his teachings. Its just sometimes I can not agree. Ironically, because the details he supplies us with. I was free to see certain truths that he simply never saw. We are all parts of a body. No one is an island unto himself. No one is 100% correct, 100% of the time. For that reason I keep an open mind. A guarded open mind. I have no desire to attack any teacher.

Grace and peace...

_________________
God has two dwellings:
one in heaven, and the other
in a meek and thankful heart.
Izaak Walton
(1593-1683)

For some unknown reason those links do not work. I can access the page from my own links, but not with those.

_________________
God has two dwellings:
one in heaven, and the other
in a meek and thankful heart.
Izaak Walton
(1593-1683)

That's because they're https and not http, and the site does not support secure connections.

Behold this Magick:
http://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/LessonListingForWeb2014.pdf
http://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/Illustrations.pdf
http://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/DVD_Catalogue.pdf



It's never about us guarding our mind or us generating an interpretation as a bypass based on how we feel. When the Word states something (James 1:21) it should be BELIEVED *with* 1 John 1:9. If it is not understood then it should be flung to God via 1 Peter 5:7 (James 1:5)-- otherwise we run the risk of an "epiflop": trying to epignosis something that isn't the Word that we made up or heard somewhere else. Which inhibits being a doer of the Word (James 1:25).

I would say "open mind" misses the mark on explaining the phenomenon and issues behind epignosis. The problem is the believer on standby (argos pistis) and/or mind lock (skleruno kardia). Depending on which route the believer takes: muting their spiritual life or muting their soul.

Trial and error happens, but the focus is never on the teacher or "I think this is right because I think I am right" (we're never right only God, therefore auditing ourselves is important). It's never wise to operate by feelings or interpretations without 1 John 1:9 and without talking to God.

Disagreeing with Thieme on doctrines that have been revised thoroughly is something you'll want to talk with God with via 1 John 1:9 + 1 Peter 5:7.

Gene, I already gave you what you requested in red, in the Incarnate thread and I politely asked you to move your post there, as THIS THREAD is about RESEARCH MATERIALS, not yet another unending debate at your end about what you insist be true about whether the Lord had a PreIncarnate soul.

YOU ARE RUINING THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD. I will not reply to you again anywhere in this board, and in THIS thread I would encourage others not to debate you here either, as you are taking everyone OFFTOPIC.

You can download this directly from http://www.rbthieme.org if you pick the 'Complete Lesson Listing' below 'Audio Lessons MP3', or just take it from this post, since I downloaded the pdf.

Handy new 465-page summary of ALL lessons RBT taught since 1961 (or at least the ones Berachah will keep on providing), http://rbthieme.org/pdf/lessonsummaries ... maries.pdf

I've not checked it for the many tapes I have, many of which are not in the master catalogue.