FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

From thread started here: https://twitter.com/Clay_Odem/status/779941379178889216

Upshot was we went in circles, when Dan12:11-12 were clear all along. So here, am reconstructing. If one had time, it would be fairly easy to turn this into a realistic, Biblical movie or novel. But for now, just the timeline...

Day 1 Rapture/Trib Q is what day that is, whether a Jewish holiday to alert Jews/converts. The Two Witnesses appear in Temple grounds, keeping everyone away. Presumably they explain. If memory serves there is also some pair of angels flying at noon in every time zone, right now I forget where that is in Rev.

Day 1095.75 (so Day 1096 at noon) Three Trib years have elapsed. Revelation 9 opens, Satan gets key to Abyss, 200 million DEMON ARMY then punishes all the unbelievers for the next 150 (or 155, if Elul in there) days.

1461 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1185 Folks who miscalculate the exit window 1335 in Daniel 12:12 using lunar years (2520 days in 7 lunar years) will mistakenly think the window opens first, here. So they will try to leave. It might be rough going.

1371.75 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1221.75 (so day 1222 at noon) Exit window for the end of the FLIGHT phase opens. It will last until the Abomination is set up on Day 1266.75. (Count backwards from 2556.75 to each of the two numbers in Dan 12:11-12 to get these values, remember Hebrew day starts piggybacked on day before, at sundown.)

1335 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1230 Jews who miscalculate using lunar years but otherwise 'get it' that the 1290 is to be counted BACKWARDS from the end of the 7 years, will think their exit window ends here. So they still get out. Problem is, if any remain afterwards, they will think they cannot get out, though they still can.

1326.75 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1245.75 or 1250.75 The five-month Rev 9 Demon torture of unbelievers ENDS. Now they are no longer restricted.

1311 or 1306 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1260 Two Witnesses are killed by Abaddon leader of those demons (Satan? Rev 9 sounds like it's someone else who was chained up with the others.) Earth must see this on TV or something, cuz the celebration is worldwide.

1296.75 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1261.75 Some kind of Jewish holiday? On which, what happens?

1295 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1263.5 (so around dawn on 1264th day), Two Witnesses resuscitated, astonish and anger world, God calls them to come up. World sees, is ticked off. They go up, big earthquake.

1293.25 days remain to End Trib.

Day 1266.75, So noon 6 days after their death, despite whatever is the earthquake damage, Abominating Talking Statue is flown in (or arrives some other way, likely flamboyant), to be put in the Holy of Holies.

• THIS 1266.75 IS THE LAST EXIT DAY, END OF THE FLIGHT PHASE. Get caught in Jerusalem after noon, and you can't get out. So you stay to fight, awaiting that general Thieme talked about (Zech 12:6, mistranslated, Hebrew is et-aluph ).

1290 days remain to end Trib.

Day 1275.75 or 1280.75 Rev 11:2's 42 months must include the long months; so instead of 1260, 42 months ends at 1275.75 or 1280.75, if one of the remainder 6 months includes Elul. Does a holiday occur here?

1281 or 1276 days remain to end Trib.

Day 1278.375 Exact Trib midpoint on solar calendar.

1278.375 days remain to end Trib.

Day 1280.75 Is this a Jewish holiday of some kind?

1276 days remain to end Trib.
Perhaps Rev 11:2's 42 months occurs here, not in first 3.5 years;
instead of 1260, 42 months ends at 1275.

Day 1295 Some kind of Jewish Holiday? On which, what happens?

1261.75 days remain to end Trib.

Again, this is only the bare bones timeline. Feel free to amend, add, complete, etc. Anony's goal was to see what Holidays bookend it at start and 1295. But Daniel 12:11-12 are pretty unequivocal about the Abomination entrance date, so at least that's likely resolved.

What's creeping me out, is that this story is starting to write itself. It makes so much sense to me now. I used to hate prophecy with a passion. But after seeing how DT is, how goofball and WILLFULLY BLIND his adherents, all bets are off: can't deny this stuff plausibility, anymore.

Something about facing prophecy makes the reality of God and His Word so palpable, it hurts and I want to faint. It's hard to type.

I did a very early and poor version of this back 15 years ago, http://www.brainout.net/SatSpin.htm

A better more technical piece but still (like everything) in need of massive edit, is http://www.brainout.net/RevPlay.htm . It has an outline doc in it which is sometimes helpful. My memory of Rev was much better then too.

What if the Two Witnesses die after the Abomination has already been in the Temple for 30 days?

1290-1260=30
After the Beast's intro in Rev 13:1-5, he blasphemes the tabernacle (first), then makes war with saints (starting w/ Two Witnesses).
The Beast's 42 months could actually be 1275 days if you factor in the long months. So perhaps the first 15 days of Beast's 42 months are nested in last 15 days of Two Witnesses' 1260.

1245+(15)+1260

So going with my idea of 35 days calm before Two Witnesses minister:

35+1245+(15)+1260

This way, Two Witnesses die 1295 days into Tribulation, 30 days after Abomination is set up (1290 days before Second Advent). Depending on Tribulation start date, this would make the death of Two Witnesses relevant to Maccabean Chanuka or end of Unleavened Bread, leading into Feast of Weeks.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

No, the Abomination is put into the Temple after they are dead, see Rev13.

Yeah, I see what you mean now.

I'm still concerned about how the Feasts might have a part in the Tribulation. After all, Talmud says Millennium starts with Yom Teruah. That makes perfect sense if Yom Teruah is the Rosh Hashanah (being the start of Adamic year). Since Millennium was scheduled to happen 4200 solar years post Fall of Adam, it would only be logical that the Millennium starts on Rosh Hashanah.

So if (maybe/maybe not) the Rosh Hashanah Theory for the Original Schedule is correct, then Daniel 12 must have been crafted to fit Rosh Hashanah.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, you blow the shofar for other holidays, too.. I forget which ones. Yom Kippur? Passover? Booths?

Ok, So for the moment, I am focusing on the Talmudic Rosh Hashanah Theory, since it does relate to 4200 schedule. My assumption is that Dan 12 is crafted to fit Rosh Hashanah.

So Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets/Yom Teruah, on the Bible's solar calendar is the Autumnal Equinox. Usually Sept 22.

Day of Sept 22 -1335 days= Jan 25th. This is the day that Jesus was presented in the Jerusalem Temple (Luke 2:21-33). Jesus was born on Dec 24/25th +8 Days for circumcision +33 more days for purification= Jan 25th.

It seems important, but it cant really be tied to the Abomination, which would logically come 45 days later.

If we instead calculate Sept 22 -1290= Mar 10th or Adar 20th. I don't know if Adar 20 is significant.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Another thing: 1295 - 365.25x3 leaves 199.25. Were it 185 or 180, you'd have an equinox. So if Rapture started 199.25- one of those prior, wouldn't you hit an equinox? OR.. Passover? OR.. Booths

Or updated.. Chanukah? Surely they blew the shofar for that.

And be sure to match even character. For example, the big mistake Dispies make, is to call Daniel 9:26 'fulfilled' at Palm Sunday. NO. Text says clearly Messiah is CUT OFF, so DEATH is the event, and the hanging chad 7 they explain away by using lunar year calcs. SLOPPY SCHOLARSHIP and you can't balance your checkbook that way, either.

So BIRTH to BIRTH. DEATH to DEATH. CROWNING to CROWNING (except when BORN king, so then crowning and birth align).

There's no parallel between Mill and circumcision.

Here is a good one. If Talmudic Jews are looking for Messiah on Rosh Hashanah, then a Passover Rapture would be deadly.

April 4 -1290 days= Sept 22 aka Rosh Hashanah. In this case, the Abomination would be standing on the Feast of Trumpets when Jews would be looking for Messiah. The Beast could use this to call himself messiah, but first, Jews would have to get their calendar right.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, Satan's even more cheeky than Trump, could CORRECT the calendar to make his propaganda, even as he CORRECTED the woman after she added the 'touch it' fake criterion.

So look (going back to your 1295):

1. Pretend Rapture actually happens on vernal equinox.
2. 14 days after that, Passover Begins. By then, Satan&Co. have announced correct cal to the world, and they all scramble to celebrate passover. We're all Jews now. That marginalizes those real believers who can SEE it's Satan&Co. ruse (i.e., the 144K).
3. Three years later, on anniversary, it's now 1095.75+14=1109.75. Demon boys are still persecuting real unbelievers who if we all are Jews, are pegged unfaithful Jews. Like Donald Sutherland at end of Invasion of Body Snatchers.
4. Real Day 1221.75 still occurs, so exit window opens. But now it's (get this) 112 days later. So Pentecost+56, 9th Av.
5. 45 days later, after the 2Witnesses dead and risen, Abom flown in. It's the 24th of Elul. Elizabeth conceived on 25 Elul, maybe at sundown prior. HERALD. Statue as HERALD like John the Baptist. For they never pretend it's Christ. Satan would know what even a brainout could learn from Luke 1:26-36, that Elizabeth conceived 25 Elul.
6. 11 days later is Rosh HaShanah, and your count is now 1277.75.
7. 10 days later is Yom Kippur, and your count is 1287.75.
8. By 1295 you're in the middle of Booths.

Or, count back from some event you think ought to be a holiday.
Like, Abom flown in/set up. What holiday ought that to be? Chanukah seems most apt. Temple the Temple Depicts. Or, even better for the HERALD value and propaganda: Pentecost.

Count back 70 days, it's vernal equinox. 100 days prior, the 3rd anniversary of Rapture, for 1266.75 is 1095.75 (3 years' elapse) +171.

Gives new meaning to 'the first 100 days'.
Of course, you're using Rosh HaShanah as the Abom setup, which then 171 days prior was Passover, which is then exactly 3 years from a putative Rapture date on the real calendar. And that's pretty powerful.

But think: Christ rose 3.5 days later. So why not use FirstFruits?

Point is, there are many ways you can fit to important dates that can be used. Trying to figure out exactly which way WILL occur, will make you old and gray and frustrated.

Do you think Dan 7:25 means that he will try to change the calendar? Or maybe not the dates, but the meaning of the Feasts?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Both of the above, but better if he uses the real calendar, since God will. Makes it harder for the real believers to say no. None of that stops him from pulling a Nero by renaming months, adding holidays, etc.

In the example above, he could say hitting the middle of Booths was to mean Christ Risen 3.5 days later (when the midpoint hit), so now Harvesting has a new midpoint holiday.. right?

That's true, but at least we know that Dan 12 works with some Feast Dates, especially Passover. So maybe Feasts are more than just poetic.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Oh sure the feasts are more than poetic. They depict trends of history. David knew that, hence the 1Chron24 priestly course names are all prophetic of history. I could only quickly demonstrate that in http://www.brainout.net/HebCal.htm . (It's also in PassPlot.htm).

Israel's enemies have long used the Feast days to attack her: final assault on 2nd Temple, began ON Passover. And let's not forget Yom Kippur War.

And if you really wanna get creepy, 2667 FAF is divisible evenly by 3 AND 7. So if God made Passover Month a new year, then our counting it by math as 2666 would equate to the start of 2667.

2667-1267 (solar day Abom set up)=1400, year Moses began writing Torah.

Why so many crazy "coincidences" like this? Is it Satan messing with the BC/AD system? I've seen so many things like this in the past 4 years that its almost frustrating.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, first there are many important events in Israel's and world history to reconcile or connect. So there should be a lot of weirdness like this. Problem is more to decide if you connect the RIGHT events the seeming 'coincidence' or 'revelation' signifies. That's why matching event character matters so much.

Here in the example, the writing of Torah begins 40 years after the Exodus (really at start of year 41), and technically doesn't match Exodus itself. But Moses is the key guy in both. So I can just see Satan, who wanted Moses' body anyway (per Jude), mouthing some connection to him, even if not quite apt.

I just realized it's also deadly in reverse. As in, they read the 1290 as START rather than backwards count from end...

So statue really goes up 1266.75 as Daniel 12:11 actually says. BUT at that point there do remain 1290 days, so voila!

• CALL it the 1290th day and announce the Mill is HERE! After all, that's what the text says, right? (Wrong: but since 1290 is in the text, and most people won't READ, the text is effectively masked.)
  
  Then
• CALL most blessed, those 45 days prior to the now-totally-obfuscated real Rapture date (which was 1266.75 days prior, but now that 1290 is accepted, why not 1335)!
  
  Aha,
• so now that the actual Rapture Date count is advertised as occurring 75 days EARLIER than it occurred (like Catholics say Good Friday to Sunday is three days and nights) -- AHA, now a) anyone disputing that (i.e., based on real knowledge of Bible and competence), can be rounded up and jailed/killed; b) can be silenced in fear, so the truth is masked.

It's not like we don't see the same thing happening daily, in and outside of Christendom.

So notice, if the Statue IS INDEED put in Temple ON RoshHaShana and the demon boys want to CLAIM Rapture started on Passover (even though they are counting the wrong way)...

RHS - Passover is 194 days (solely if counted from RHS to Pesach, not the reverse)
Add 1095.75 and you get a way to see how that Statue is put in HOH on RHS, on the newly-minted claim that it's really 1290!

So now, all those people who correctly calculated the exit window and left, are confused. For if the Rapture really did occur on Passover and they left by 1266.75th day, they will think they left AT THE WRONG TIME. So now they will start to doubt what time it is, and think they should have stayed, and might then seek to come BACK to FIGHT.

Note well: The holiday picked to do this back-count obfuscation, does not have to be RHS. It only has to be any famous Jewish holiday where the numbers 'fit' to make the claim. So of course they could put it up ON Passover, claim the Rapture occurred on RHS, even though it didn't!

This is so realistic, I'm shaking.

I found another deadly one. My original theory placed the Abomination on Passover so that the False Prophet could present himself as a lamb (Rev 13:11). This blasphemy would then be thrown back in his face when the Two Witnesses would be resuscitated 3.5 days later (Rev 11:9) to kind of mirror the death and resurrection of our Lord. The Two Witnesses resuscitated rather than resurrected to show that they are servants of the Lord.

The problem with my original theory was that I was placing Rosh Hashanah on Sept 16th and using 35+1260+1260 for the Tribulation. Now with the dates adjusted, there is a different picture painted.

So here it is:

Rosh Hashanah + 15 days= Sukkot +8 days = Shemini 'Atzeret (8th day celebration)

So, Shemini 'Atzeret would fall on Oct 14th. If we subtract 1290 days from Oct 14th, we get Passover Day (Apr 3rd). This scenario would place a 6.75 day hiatus prior to the 1260 days of Two Witnesses' ministry which could work with Rev 7:1 (especially if the Two Witnesses are really part of the 144K?). Hence, the Tribulation would be 1267+1290 days to fill 7 solar years.

This scenario would be deadly for people drooling over the Abomination, but would also deal a humiliating blow to the Beast and False Prophet. Therefore anybody paying close attention would suddenly realize what is happening.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, but where is the confirming Scripture? You'd need wordplay on the holidays (and I'm not saying there is none), plus that extra seven isn't shown in Daniel 12, so where do we see it?

Point here, is that we've all come up with several timelines but 'there can only be one'. So where's our Highlander?

Still trying to figure out exactly when the Two Witnesses start their ministry. I kinda feel like there should be a hiatus of some kind before the first 1260 days, per Rev 7:3...
But for the time being, I noticed something else.
The woman flees to the wilderness, so this must be the 2nd half of Trib. So here it looks like the 1260 days of nourishment is counting back from Second Advent (like Daniel 12).

Since early escape window opens at 1335 days till Mill, 1335-1260=75. So that confirms there are a total of 75 days to escape: 45 days Pre-Abomination and 30 days Post-Abomination.

So now the question; Is the first half of Trib a mirror image of the second half? 1260+36.75+1260. That would be very symmetrical, but is it correct?

Also:

I don't know if there is phonetic word play involved, but what about this:
What if it is hinting at Passover?

1) Foreigners could be coming to Jerusalem to celebrate a Feast.

2) Same city where our Lord died. Again, on Passover.

3) Two Witnesses rise 3.5 days later.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Oh yeah. Window 1221.75-1266.75 can be also seen as 1260+36.75+1260, in same idea as 147 can be 70+77 but also 84+63. The different packagings can reference different but overlaying timelines. Just as, 365 days, but you can instead denote the same period as 12 mos or 52 weeks.

For crops, the monthly denomination would maybe be most important to follow. For your Daytimers, maybe 52 weeks.

So different purposes, as well maybe as different events, can warrant denominational differences overlaying the same seven years.

So if you wanted one of the denominational subdivisions to 'tag' the holidays, like you were doing with Passover and Yom Teruah...

So look: 1221.75 early window start 'within' 1st 1260. At 1230, the demon boys' five months are up, and at 1260 the Two Witnesses killed, then 1263.5 they resurrect or resuscitate (I forget which), then earthquake, and during the next 3 days, last chance!, thus closing 1266.75 (day 1267 at noon). Statue then in, and of that 36.75, only 30 remains. Then Rev 12 running to wilderness for presumably those not around Jerusalem (maybe the other window, but the 45 would be subsumed?), and then 1260.

It's awful precise, so I'd not be surprised if it were also keyed to the holidays, but you'd have to know them, as I'm sure the authorities will 'change the times and seasons' to prevent accurate daily accounting.

Heres what creeps me out with the Passover scenario with Two Witnesses.

If 1260 days starts after a 6-7 day hiatus, then Trib starts and end on day after Booths week.

But if 1260 starts immediately and ends on Passover, then Trib starts/ends on Oct 22.

October 22 keeps coming up in my various calculations, but the scary thing is that William Miller's failed prediction (1800s) stated that Christ would return on Oct 22....and he was using a Lunar calendar. That's just weird.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

So 10/22 is equivalent to 1 Bul. I think I remember the mene mene tekel upharsin date being 10 Bul, per ISBE? I'll go look it up, but that means a reference to Daniel 5, which then has to be tested for its dateline (groan). How can we get exact date? I've never done that in OT. John does exact dates in at least one of his books.

I can't find the 10 Bul I found years ago in Bibleworks' ISBE, but found something close, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Babylon#Invasion Search on Marchesvan. The source of the date is apparently the Babylonian record.