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Jesus Christ controls hades / hell / sheol
http://brainout.net/frankforum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=339
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Author:  hupostasis [ 04 Oct 2015, 22:17 ]
Post subject:  Jesus Christ controls hades / hell / sheol

After coming across 1 sam 2:6, I realized this proofs as Christ being the LORD, since only God can bring down to sheol and then up again:
Quote:
Revelation 1:18 I am He that lives, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore amen; and have the keys of hades and of death.
Revelation 1:18 καὶ ὁ ζῶν, καὶ ἐγενόμην νεκρὸς καὶ ἰδοὺ ζῶν εἰμι εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων καὶ ἔχω τὰς κλεῖς τοῦ θανάτου καὶ τοῦ ᾅδου.
1 Samuel 2:6 The LORD kills and makes alive: he brings down to sheol, and brings up.
1 Samuel 2:6 יְהוָ֖ה מֵמִ֣ית וּמְחַיֶּ֑ה מוֹרִ֥יד שְׁא֖וֹל וַיָּֽעַל׃


Note: of course the verse means God controls death and life, not literally that God is the result of all killing.

Author:  brainout [ 05 Oct 2015, 04:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Jesus Christ controls hades / hell / sheol

Yeah, nice tie to Samual. Moreover, HE has the keys, so there's no peter with any. But then, the whole pope doctrine lie is another topic anyway.

Author:  hupostasis [ 06 Oct 2015, 01:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Jesus Christ controls hades / hell / sheol

brainout wrote:
Yeah, nice tie to Samual. Moreover, HE has the keys, so there's no peter with any. But then, the whole pope doctrine lie is another topic anyway.


Well that's when my head starts to spin. Consider this: you have the RAW Bible in front of your, plain. It speaks. Then you have unitarianism, catholicism, KJV-onlyism, mormonism, jehovah's witnesses, annihilationism, lordship salvationists... they all break everything. And once you view it all simultaneously and show how they hideously contradict everything in unison, it becomes quite overwhelming. In fact, it would be a fantastic case study to line them all up, and show how each one individually 'attacks / reverses' certain doctrines (if we are to assume satan assigns 'unique' reversals to each group), AND-- how they rewrite verses to support their belief system, ignoring what the Bible actually says. For example:
Give a Roman Catholic Revelation 1:18, they'll create an elaborate work-around how it's not Christ, but Peter with the keys (to disprove Matthew 16:18)
Give a "biblical" Unitarian Revelation 1:18, they'll create an elaborate work-around how it's not Christ, but God with the keys (to disprove 1 Samuel 2:6)*

*they'll have to create some sort of artificial platform to separate Christ from God, and distance Christ away from 1 Samuel 2:6. I wasn't able to find a unitarian response to this, since... they probably haven't read deep enough to find this connection. I'm sure they could create some sort of excuse, though. That's what a mind lock is all about-- if you want something to be true YOU'LL MAKE IT TRUE, even if it's not.

Go figure... by showing how both the Catholic and Unitarian modify Revelation 1:18 to their own needs, it shows an 'error' on both once we see it simultaneously. Because... both cannot be right, and we can SEE how it's being modified to make it say what they NEED it to. WHEN REVELATION 1:18 CLEARLY STATES *CHRIST* HAS THE KEYS AND NOBODY ELSE, AND WHOEVER HAS THE KEYS *IS* GOD.

I've often wondered if showing KJV-onlyists how sticking to the KJV exclusively makes it *impossible* to respond to arguments in many situations. All you're left with are nutty work-arounds, never a direct / discreet and SOLID answer. Anemic responses that just don't have substance. Anemic responses that don't make sense.

Author:  brainout [ 06 Oct 2015, 05:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Jesus Christ controls hades / hell / sheol

Yeah, hupostasis, that's what frightens me. When you see how many get it wrong for so long, you begin to doubt yourself. Which, is a good thing. So: do I NEED 'x' interp of Bible to be true? If yes, my interp is likely wrong.

It's a scary thing to get all tied up in the denominational squabbles. Easy to end up talking just like them. Which makes one wrong, even when right, for it's not so much about having the right answer, as it is about learning God. So that's the ultimate litmus test for bias: what interpretation motive, governs?

Of course, we'll all protest we only want 'the truth'. Yeah. I trust myself as far as I can throw the Empire State Building. :lolhard:

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