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Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering
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Author:  Anonynomenon [ 28 Oct 2016, 15:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Hopefully the election results will shed more light on how to interpret the rest of the parable. The suspense is a killer!

Author:  brainout [ 31 Oct 2016, 08:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Well, the point of the passage seems to be that 50% of the salt are saltless so history will prove bad no matter what, though 2041. Flipside, that what y'all learn through it passes to your kids and their kids and so on, so for the next 600 years (if no Rapture), future history will be much better.

Need to recheck the sevens. Like you've said many times, they seem too sparse.

After that, it goes REALLY bad, until the end. Keeps me up at night, thinking how important our NOW is.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 31 Oct 2016, 17:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I keep forgetting about that ratio change. I wonder why, out of the entire CA timeline, its only during colonial and post colonial history that believer maturity ratios are disclosed?

Author:  brainout [ 03 Nov 2016, 22:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Well, maybe the ratios aren't relevant until then? I don't know why 1703AD et seq. has ratios disclosed.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 10 Nov 2016, 02:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

As I watch Trump's acceptance speech, I get the impression that he will possibly be elected for two terms, to lead us into the 7 year micro-trib of 2024-2030. Maybe all the work that Trump and his Foolish Virgins hope to achieve between 2017-2023 will begin to backfire on them in 2024-2030. Maybe they are setting up their own trap...digging their own mass grave....who knows? Nevertheless, in his acceptance speech, Trump is yet again promising "only the best" for America. Its exactly what the Foolish Virgins want to hear from their anti-christ.

Given Trump's track record, the only way he can deliver on any these promises is by turning the nation against an imagined boogeyman/scapegoat, just as he has done to all of his enemies/obstacles. The Foolish Virgins desperately want the door to be opened, and the False-groom seems willing to say/do anything to appease them.

Author:  hupostasis [ 10 Nov 2016, 04:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Anonynomenon wrote:
As I watch Trump's acceptance speech, I get the impression that he will possibly be elected for two terms, to lead us into the 7 year micro-trib of 2024-2030. Maybe all the work that Trump and his Foolish Virgins hope to achieve between 2017-2023 will begin to backfire on them in 2024-2030. Maybe they are setting up their own trap...digging their own mass grave....who knows? Nevertheless, in his acceptance speech, Trump is yet again promising "only the best" for America. Its exactly what the Foolish Virgins want to hear from their anti-christ.

At first I was a little skeptical if it had to do with anything (since Trump only cares about Trump), however he and his supporters are actually quite anti-Semitic, the TYT did a surprisingly good video on it:

You'll see one of the brainwashed teens talk fondly of Alex Jones and start purporting conspiracies on "zionism" equating all Jews to being evil. Except... there's no such thing.

Alex Jones, by the way, contradicts himself so much. He's a staunch roman catholic and tries to pass that off as conservative christianity, but at the same time then says the pope is wrong to say Trump is wrong. In other words, Alex Jones is a Catholic who believes in 'whatever' and runs Infowars to make a quick buck. Quite a lucrative business from so many gullible people. Just like the (now deceased) Jack Chick or Gail Riplinger.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 10 Nov 2016, 18:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Oh yeah, I know all about Alex Jones. I used to listen to his radio show back in 2009 until he started going off the deep end. Then I did some research on him and found out he was a total propaganda opportunist. Just the kind of guy who would support Trump.

Author:  brainout [ 11 Nov 2016, 04:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Is this where I should put the 28 min audio, Anony?
How the 1st Lord in Matt25:11 depicts judgment, even though DT won: ... Judges.MP3

Created a full Twitter moment out of it, replete with related vids, So because of that, I can keep tweeting in twitter, as it no longer has to stay static for those posts to show first.

As for your insights, hupostasis, if the anti-semites start attacking, DT who doesn't need them anymore, might be able to divide them out and conquer: to look like a hero to the Dems and the FIFTY PERCENT WHO DID NOT VOTE AT ALL in 2016. Easy to replace one gullible group with another. That's how Hitler did it.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 11 Nov 2016, 05:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Yeah, I think the audio fits nicely with the subject matter. I don't know what Trump's plans are for the USA, but if he wants to win the second term, then he will have to find some kind of boogeyman to terrorize the public with, during the first term. So term 1 might be characterized by his desperation to maintain popularity. Term 2 (if re-elected) would be the careless term, which could be dangerous if Trump has any kind of ideological agenda to fulfill. Trump seems to be driven by opportunism, greed, and power lust, so I doubt he really has any kind of political ax to grind. Its too early to tell at this point.

If (hypothetically), Trump really does have an anti-Semitic agenda, then it likely wouldn't come out until his second term. Instead, he would likely emphasize the Islamic terror threat, the drug wars, and the gang violence attributed to illegal immigration. If played right, that alone could get him re-elected. By that point, if the boogeyman is scary enough, and Trump has the borders locked down, then American citizens would be sitting ducks, and Trump would have the perfect environment to push an anti-Semitic agenda. First, the heat needs to be turned up and the borders secured to hold the pressure in. That is how you convert democracy into fascism.

Author:  brainout [ 11 Nov 2016, 07:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Well, we'll soon see. I have trouble 'seeing' DT live past 2017.

In any event, your kids will spend their formative years under a Trump Presidency style, so you will have ample opportunity to teach them what 'bad' is. Millions of kids will be thus innoculated, and I bet many of them will get serious about Bible, given how Matt25:13ff reads.

Author:  brainout [ 13 Nov 2016, 07:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

In any event, yeah 2023-2030 has to be judgment, maybe even war. That's past the two terms. And it's Christ's answering, 1st clause in Matt25:12. Hope I'm dead by then, but I fear I won't be. I can't imagine living that long.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 13 Nov 2016, 21:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Yeah, that's exactly why I believe there might be two terms of Trump, because it looks like it might incur judgment. It might mean that Trump will give more power to the evangelical dominionists, which is a frustrating thought.

Author:  brainout [ 16 Nov 2016, 02:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Well, clearly the others in the family are being groomed for public office. So maybe not DT himself, but one of them.

Author:  brainout [ 20 Nov 2016, 08:06 ]
Post subject:  Matt24 meter/anaphora thematic ties


This post is under prolonged construction. I found a handy albeit incomplete and not wholly accurate Jerusalem timeline, here:

Background videos most relevant to this post start here: ... 4fmi3Xs3Yf

To save you time, here again are the links to the latest versions of the Matt24-25 text and the anaphora tester: and . The xls works in Excel/Word2003 and prior, as well. Old WordPerfect should be able to handle it.

    Purpose of the xls is manifold:
    a) test DELIBERATENESS of the distances between anaphora occurrences as a way to verify we counted syllables correctly,

    b) test DELIBERATENESS of the MEANING of the distances, as in Bible even syllable counts have vital doctrinal meanings designed to interact with and hence elucidate, the text.

    c) FIND THE NEXUS, the key to why the anaphora have those distances. The nexus will always be the middle anaphora in a series. Here, it's 1570-1640 AD, which is the English Reformation and the 2nd official historical 70-year voting period, post-Cross. The period is a sudden-death round: if not enough are positive to Bible, Time ends. Its precedent is the Flood (120=50+70).

    So you'll need the map of Time per BIBLE (not stars or errant scholars who use lunar years tho Bible only uses solar): and its verse list plus calcs post Gen5, . The math is intense, but not complex. Fifth grader could do it.

    Video explainer channel,


I think I get the meaning of the Matt24 anaphora differentials in relation to the text, specifically with reference to how 'our' anaphora for 2030, will play. The idea is to know the future from the past, so that was the issue: what past is tied together, to tell us what future? To know that, you have to establish the THEMES:

*How Daniel 9's '62nd week' will stretch out FOR CHURCH, given Christ will die at the start of it, 7 years EARLY.

*Where Daniel 2's Man of Time will 'fit', in light of Daniel 10-12, relative to this new 'deathbed blessing' of prophecy through 3250AD (both Matt24-25 being one chapter in the meter and in Greek).

*Who are the potential 'people of the ruler to come' at the end of Dan9:26, since the Roman Model of Government is already tagged from Temple Down forward (and there are two Romes in the future, 2nd being Constantine's in what is now called Istanbul). That question will inform the entire text, esp. cuz all governments ended up adopting the Roman Model from Christ onward. There is not a constitution on earth today, which isn't based on that model. So ANY COUNTRY can become the country where the Gentile Anti-Christ rises.. except Israel.

*Hence, WHERE the Gentile Antichrist will be, in any given time, since Rapture is unpredictable.

*Major update to Daniel is that CHURCH will be the seed of the Gentile AntiChrist, which of course Rev17 will later reveal in more detail. So

*BIBLE LEARNING is traced, since Satan will try to turn that country/countries into the seed source, again given what we'll later know from Rev17 is CHURCH. Like Thieme said circa Lesson 800 in Series 376 Spiritual Dynamics when covering Matt4, 'Satan always plays to strength', so he tempted Christ based on His Strengths. Same, for His Kids.

So the themes above constitute a geographical tour over time, with the King of the North, having been defined since Daniel 2 as first Babylon, then Persia, then Greece and then 'Rome', moves progressively westward. So too, did Bible interest, esp. after Temple Down.

So as it stands now, were the Rapture to occur in January 21 et seq., the Gentile anti-christ would be Trump, if he's not saved.

Interlinked are the same historical trends that run in 490 and 1000-year cycles, as I tried to summarize here:

Because, if those deadlines aren't met, Time can still end just as was the rule pre-Church.. and maybe there is no Rapture.

How past anaphora inform Matt25:12's, for 2023-2041 AD

Now we get technical. The anaphora benchmarks critical times which include all of the above themes. Looks like the clause just before amen legw humin is used to explain the nature of the time. As each of these anaphora passes, we can more easily look back at history to forecast the meaning of the next amen legw humin meaning. So for us, there have already been THREE occurrences:

. :sofapopcorn: .

1st, at syll 57=87AD=what was supposed to be Trib Start, had there been no Church; prior clause being
οὐ βλέπετε ταῦτα πάντα; '[Don't] you see all this?'

After all, maybe believers would mature anyway, so the 'old schedule' would still be met in time. We know it wasn't, but it could have been, and Christ is speaking 57 years before it happens (haha, 57 days from Passover Start to Pentecost).

So we have really a trilogy, as Luke 21 maps the same syllables exactly:
:arrow: 40=70AD, Temple Down, matched to Matt24:1 with the disciples drooling over the BUILDING rather than the BUILDER Who is LEAVING THE BUILDING (hahaha, considering 40 is used in syll count).

:arrow: 49(dateline)=79AD, Titus who took the Temple Down, goes up as Emperor and Pompeii goes down (Romans were very superstitious, they'd interpret that as a bad omen for Titus).

:arrow: 57=87AD, will end up being called Domitian's Terror (against JEWS, tho Christians were lumped in as Jews, hated cuz their non-willingness to pay obeisance to Emperors and Rome's gods, was considered unpatriotic).

So this triptych is our precedence for how to read the subsequent anaphora, in a familiar pan-OT prophecy sequence:
Foreign Domination,
Foreign Power Judged,

Of course, then at the last minute when all looks hopeless.. deus ex machina, Savior comes down at the end of the 'play'. BIBLE theme since Genesis, which the Greeks would later ape in all their lit.

Not fully sure that the above purple descriptions are apt, using them for now. In Domitian's Terror, really the focus was on how to steal your money. The guy was constantly broke. So if you didn't pay your Jewish tax, or if you had so much money it was more profitable to accuse you of being impious (atheist, not serving Rome's gods or deified Emperor, esp. Domitian) -- then you would be stripped of your property, if noble/famous BANISHED (hence John to Patmos). Or, sometimes killed. That being what Domitian did to the senators and other high-born at Rome and partly because Jews converted a lot of the high-born, obviously elsewhere in the empire it was politick to do the same, even absent any Imperial Mandate (of which we find none).

So persecution has that pecuniary flavor to it. Else more or less don't ask, don't tell as Trajan would later tell Pliny.

So now look how apt, Matt24:2c (first occurrence of the anaphora), d:
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν (2nd dateline, again 30AD,syll count 63 meaning yrs pre‐Mill had there been no Church),
'believe it when I tell you'

Luke 21:6 'covers' the anaphora with καταλυθήσεται, in order to also end at 63 syllables, sure sign Luke is MAPPING to Matt24:2c,d while he writes.

Cuz Matt24:2d uses the same term,
οὐ μὴ ἀφεθῇ ὧδε λίθος ἐπὶ λίθον ὃς οὐ καταλυθήσεται 'not one stone will be left upon another'. Which of course ends at syll 84=114AD, just in time for the rebellion to start in Libya over the Temple NOT being rebuilt, inter alia.

Since the 63 takes us forward to the end of what was supposed to be Israel's history and the beginning of the Mill absent Church (Trib completes), now we know why Rev 11 mocks whatever structure is there, God telling John to use a 'reed' not a rod (for measuring a foundation PRIOR TO BUILDING, so if Dome/other structure is there, it's treated as non-existent).

So no, unlike some who claimed to have studied under Thieme, the Bible NEVER authorizes the Temple to be rebuilt.

But oh, Abominations will be attempted, and regularly!

Israel started wanting to replace the Temple, see, and even rebelled (as you well know) 115-117 AD, when Trajan died (first eta in thelematos in Eph1:5), and Hadrian who'd come to hate the Jews, took over. He said no, the Jews kept rebelling, so presto chango we have Matt24:3's sardonic meter for Bar Kochba rebellion in 132-135; resulting by 140 AD and after Hadrian's death.. in Aeolia Capitolina, with a pig temple atop the Temple Mount. Just like under Antiochus IV Epiphanes, about 44 sevens prior.

490 years after Antiochus, would be Constantine creating the first unity of church and state, 325 AD, Matt24:9 syll clause ending 295, Τότε παραδώσουσιν ὑμᾶς εἰς θλῖψιν, 'Then they will deliver you over to 'tribulation', which is exactly what happened as a result of the Council of Nicaea. Laws here. There were plans to rebuild the Temple or put something else 'Christian' atop it, as the pig temple was in disrepair; but nothing I can find, actually happened.

I'm newly convinced that Rev17:10's 7th king is patterned like the King of the North in Daniel 11, where actually a series of kings is depicted, ending with Antiochus IV in Dan11:34, and then as PARALLEL the final real KON in 11:35 et seq (or 36, with 35 as changeover in parallelism), is the one for the Trib. Similarly, since even by Domitian's day more than 5 Roman Emperors had lived, the angel is selecting five as prototypes, with Domitian (esp. as he was then persecuting to get money) as the current proto.. and the future 7th one would START with Constantine, who himself is the prototype of the final KON.

I remember you and some others interpret the five to be past big empires. That would fit, too. Big isn't necessarily territory, but can be influence. The final 10-nation confederacy is.. who knows. Tradition assigns it to the same geography as SPQR, but in what year and extent? It reached its largest extent under Trajan, and shrank after that, with a brief resurgence in size under Justin or Justinian, I forget which. Then what about the Holy Roman Empire? In short, which Roman-style governance is in view? And why do we ASSume it must cover the same territory as ancient Rome, esp. since Constantine moved the territory capital, EAST?

Rome pretty much split after he died, between his sons warring, and those who succeeded them.

So that's why the 8th is the beast itself, since the real Constantine will be dead, but started the dangerous precedent, today reflected in the 'Seven Mountains' movement of jerks surrounding Donald Trump (of whom Ted Cruz' dad, James Dobson and other big names, are big in that movement).

The seven mountains were literally rebuilt by Constantine in what he called New Rome, which today we call Istanbul.

This Rev17 connection, obviously sourced here in Matt24, thus explains a prelude, since the intertwining rules of the 490 and 1000 qualifying periods, might undo the whole timeline if not met. This is where we get the Matt24:1 war related to Jerusalem, full circle. Text denoting that 490:

Matt24:15 Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως 'When you see the Desolating Abomination'*
τὸ ῥηθὲν διὰ Δανιὴλ τοῦ προφήτου ἑστὸς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ 'spoken of via Daniel, in the Holy Place' =490=520AD.

What Abomination was that? Oh, the newly-appointed Elias (!) bishop of Jerusalem wanted to construct a temple atop the Temple Mount, to MARY. Not, to Christ. Can't be more Abominating than that, huh. But the poor guy couldn't get the money until a few years later when Justinian gave him some, and the Nea Theotokos was built over the next 20 years or so.

Aha. So by the next time we see amen legw humin, we'll know what to expect. Which is where the anaphora takes us, next.

* If a fresh manure truck crashed into your house, you'd have to leave it for a long time. That's 'desolation'

. :sofapopcorn: .

For 2nd, just prior to the next amen legw humin, is Matt24:33, ending syll 1110=1140 AD; a lot has happened, in between.
οὕτως καὶ ὑμεῖς, ὅταν ἴδητε πάντα ταῦτα, γινώσκετε ὅτι ἐγγύς ἐστιν ἐπὶ θύραις
'In this manner (like the fig tree analogy just prior), when you see all this: know that it's next-to-come, even at the door (of time, next event).'

Well, what preceded that? The 1000 qualifier deadline, which was our 1030 AD. That was marked by Matt24:31,
καὶ ἀποστελεῖ τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ μετὰ σάλπιγγος μεγάλης, 'Then He sends his angels with trumpet'(blowing, cut mid-word), the whole clause ending at 1004. Bolded section is at 1000=1030 AD.

What about that time? Well, first the Byzantines and Persians fight over the area so much they exhaust themselves by 630; just in time, cuz Mohammed baby dies in 630, his Muslims overrun Jerusalem, take over the now-derelict, Temple Mount. The bishops didn't keep it up, felt it was meant to be a desolation (pleased their rampant anti-semitism); weren't even sure where the Temple Mount was; conquering Umar baby found it via a dream he had, built the Dome of the Rock over it.

After that, well it was in the hands of the Arabs until the Christians took it upon themselves to rebel, the Arabs beat them off, Byzantium now really full of itself, intervenes. In 1030 there's a treaty with the Arabs, and churches are rebuilt.. but not that one. So by the end of first 1000 after the Lord's death, The Temple The Temple Depicted is still Abominated under a Dome.

But not for long. There's a back and forth with the Arabs fighting the Byzantines, which prompts the latter's loss and its Emperor's death, with Arab takeover of Jeru again in 1073, followed by the 1st Crusade.

By the time the 1082=1112 AD clause ends, Jeru will be back under control by the first King of Jerusalem, Baldwin I. He has the thing reconverted into a Byzantine Church. So still an Abomination, under a different name with a paint job. So how did Christ satirize that?

Matt24:32 is the 1082=1112 clause, text reads: γινώσκετε ὅτι ἐγγὺς τὸ θέρος· 'Know that summer is next.' Yeah, fig tree = Israel changes hands again, put out the leaves so war put it out, new master paints over the Rock of Their Salvation, mindless except that it beats the Muslims.

Oh, and by the way: Jews can't enter.

And that is how it remains. Strongest apocalyptic language covers this period from 905-1030 AD, in Matt24:29-30; so the analogy is to the final Armageddon battle, Zech 14. Historically it's the period of Abbasid versus Fatimid wars with Byzantium interfering off and on, causing (eventually) the Crusades. Jews are endlessly persecuted, and under the Fatimids, even Christians are as well. REALLY BAD TIME to be in the Levant.

:lightbulb: Now the plot thickens a lot. :lightbulb: We've been focusing on Jerusalem, how the first and second anaphora PREVIOUS clauses, focus on Israel, the Abomination, Daniel, etc. But what about the other themes, like .. Bible learning?

That's where the second anaphora threads to highlight; for by syll 1110=1140AD=Matt24:33, the quintessential Lord-coming-to-you 'DOOR' analogy is used. It will matter a lot when we go to the next anaphora, so it's mentioned here. Door, coming to you, opening.. what? His Head in your head, fellowship, supping with you, as Rev 3 will warn. You can't learn if in a state of sin, so no fellowship and discipline instead knocks at the door. So what do you want the door of your volition to 'open'? Dinner, or Discipline?

By 1140AD, many monasteries wanted lots of Dinner. Hundreds had arisen in the West, and at this point a Cistercian had just been made Pope. His sect of monks had made Bible teaching (though bad), esp. in Britain (the star of the anaphora story, next stop).. had become common. Many Bibles copied over and over by hand, a certain amount of freedom from persecution for the Jews, so we had complete texts routinely copied by the third century or so, with Jerome's famous original Hebrew finds, verifying the text.

In the 500's you had missionary activity as well, and the monks flourished wherever the missionaries went. They had various names, often Benedictine, Cluny, finally Cistercian.. and all three of these would corrupt within a generation or three, followed up by some fresh new austere group. They made beer, wine, did carpentry, husbanding of livestock or vegetables, as well as copying Scripture, and were an important part of each local economy. They taught, and no matter how badly, they chanted and memorized and the local people got all that text HEARD.

By 500, remember, the seeds of modern Europe were forming under Clovis and his progeny, to be followed up by the repulse of those same Muslims trying to get into France.. Battle of Tours and Charles the Hammer (Martel), gave France and upper Europe a breather. That gave rise to the Carolingians, and under Charlesmagne Bible learning was a thing pan-realm. Again, poorly taught but well copied and changed, memorized, even the script and mechanism of making a Bible copy, more efficient. Which led to more monasteries: handy way to seem pious yet be independent of Rome. Finally, it led to outright political clashes with Rome, and the tables turned, with the Carolingians saving the Papacy against the Lombards: clever thing, since the Papacy wanted to worm its way into Charlesmagne by crowning him some years prior, now dependent ON him and his strange kiddies.

All this Gallic change wafted its way in all directions, and especially in England, where the Cistercians had huge influence, i.e., that first Cistercian pope (I forget his name) who due to the above-mentioned political clashes, spent most of his life outside Rome, homeless. Bible learning thus flourished with that independence from the See.

By 1054, the schism between East and West religiously, had formed well enough for both versions of institutional Christianity to go their separate ways. Christ traces it WESTWARD, not eastward. Again, we know because at 1110=1140, focus is on that Cistercian Pope and the whole order.

And we know even more, when we trace the Bible interest thread from 500 AD forward. Importantly, there is a 'parousia' anaphora triad, as well (=Appearing, 2nd Coming) which I didn't notice until Thanksgiving, and it enlightens the entire meaning of the amen legw humin anaphora.

This parousia anaphora is only in Matt24 (not elsewhere in Matt, nor even in Luke 21), in verses 4 (apostle question), 27, 37, 39. Syllable counts are 138, 833, 1225, and 1309, respectively. The center is thus 1225.

Map of the time:

What's really interesting about the 1225=1255 AD period, is that two counter-trends are occurring: 1) LEARNING BIBLE is popular, for itself, and is conveyed mostly by itinerant Dominican and Franciscan friars, all over Europe and Russia, even China (for back in the late 800's Bible was converted to what became a common script we now call Cyrillic). 2) 'Picture Bibles' became popular among the nobility, especially Apocalypse cuz -- get this -- everyone expected His APPEARANCE (parousia) by 1260 AD, based on a wild misreading of Daniel 12. Once that year came and went, no one wanted the Picture Bibles anymore. In short: when Revelation didn't meet their drooling expectations, they STOPPED LEARNING, and never learned its real meaning. Sound familiar?

So God will have to judge that. Look at the text in the above verses, k? It's apocalyptic, and presages the Black Death.

Source text, Chapters 5 (on making Bibles popular cuz making them portable for friars) and 6 (on Picture Bibles) of ... 0714837741

Antisemitism was rife. The Picture Bibles were loaded with it (book shows the illustrations of some typical for the period). The Crusades were on again (antisemitism helped fuel them or vice versa),

So the common people were actually getting Bible in their own languages, the friars translating as they repeated and taught; but the nobility were getting PICTURES (presumably cuz they knew the text already or didn't care). See the problem?

Of course, the Crusades would bring back plague: Black Plague from 1347 et seq. really never went away, even isolated cases still occur today. But that first one hit Europe the hardest, wiping out maybe 50% of the people.

So that's your setup prior to and obviously a baptism of fire (Matt24:39ff, remember you had to burn the bodies for Black Death) for THIRD amen legw humin anaphora, occurring precisely at the 1050+490 mark next, our 1570-1640 AD, which to historians is known as the English Reformation.

It's clear from the history of the parties involved in triggering this Reformation, that GOD orchestrated the whole thing by means of just-right births and deaths of: John Knox, the cardinal he was falsely accused of killing, Mary of Guise, Mary Queen of Scots and her husbands, Henry VIII's LACK of male births and his death, Edward VI, Mary I, Elizabeth I, James VI. Someone needs to do a movie on this. Movie can leave out the 'God orchestration' theme, it will be clear enough just to show confluence of the DATES. If I live long enough, maybe I'll get hupostasis to help me write a book...

. :sofapopcorn: .

For 3rd, just prior to the next amen legw humin, is Matt24:46, ending syll 1532=1562 AD; a lot more has happened, in between.
μακάριος ὁ δοῦλος ἐκεῖνος ὃν ἐλθὼν ὁ κύριος αὐτοῦ εὑρήσει οὕτως ποιοῦντα·
'Happy is that slaveson, who his master finds doing his job well.'

This is the third and only anaphora occurrence which isn't a judgment against the object. Rather, it is praise. It occurs precisely during the 2nd voting period after Christ's death (1050+490). That year, 1570, the Pope put out a death warrant for Elizabeth I, who miraculously held her nation together and made it independent of the Papacy at the same time. Her dad Henry had a lot to do with that, confiscating Church lands when Rome wouldn't give him the divorces he wanted, and declaring himself the head of a new, wholly ENGLISH, 'Anglican' church. That independence from Rome shoulda killed him and his dynasty, but didn't. Was it because Elizabeth might marry? She knew how to read Bible in Hebrew and Greek and Latin, so maybe she remembered how Hatshepsut did it. The Kingdom remained at times shaky, but still in her hands, thanks also to Walsingham, I'm sure.

She sure held out the promise of maybe marrying some Catholic, or what about a Protestant (of whom there were none, but the European Reformation started 53 years prior, when Jeru had been taken yet again by the Ottomans).

As time passed and she forged new wholly-nationalistic links with the clerics, they came to realize maybe independence from Rome was helpful after all. Wasn't easy, but so long as she was unmarried, excuses could be made. So, she stayed unmarried. So, eventually her troubles with Mary Queen of Scots woulde nearly undo the kingdom, but what ho, James was taught by John Knox and became Protestant, so... he'd end up her heir, and England would stay independent.

So now we see the geographic shift is now England. Due to whom, there would soon become, a United States.

When a Bible timeline uses anaphora, the point is to show big-event cause and effect. The center anaphora is the key goal from which all else comes. In Ephesians 1:3-14, Paul would employ three sets of anaphora, and they all centered on the yet-future 'Constantine. I learned that passage before even knowing Matt24 was a timeline, so when seeing it here the calculations and meaning are much easier to spot. In Ephesians, there are so many measures all centering on Constantine it was more painstaking, but the meaning is the same. There, the idea was to show how Church would become apostate. Turns out Paul maps his text to Matt24, and gets his use of the anaphora from it.

Whereas Paul's focus was just the Roman empire and the effect of Church going saltless (no Bible interest), the 'parent' text here in Matt24-25, is global as noted at the beginning of this post: GLOBAL salt movements and how the Gentile anti-Christ is most potential in the nation best given BIBLE.


So at this point, how did we go from Europe to England? Well, the Cistercians were key. They started in France, multiplied in England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland. By the 1200's or so they'd go corrupt, as monasteries always do.. but while they lasted much Bible copying and learning had been done. By Henry's separation from the Papacy, they ended.

In between, there was the other 1378 Schism, then Constantinople overrun in 1453, coupled with Gutenberg's Bible, which really kicked off the process we today call the Reformation. Independent printing, no longer beholden to religious institutions, wow. Much cheaper now, even a middle class family could order one, or a bunch of families could save up and jointly own a copy.

That copy would change in size from great to small, the idea being itinerant monks needed the smaller size and the populus would save money on it. At the same time many more manuscripts were becoming available to check and translate into many vernaculars, what with the Papacy being so much weaker or disinclined to prosecute its monopoly on authorized translations.

Thus conflict over religion would ensue, and with it, missionary activity coupled with world exploration. For wars cost money, populations need food, so maybe by travelling an enterprising explorer could bring wealth to himself and his country.

So in 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue.. and didn't exactly end up in America, but did set the precedent. So by the time UNMARRIED Elizabeth I comes to reign, there's a rich Spain or France or some princes farther east who would woo her with gains from the ever-growing colonies. But ho, the prosperity growing in England over all that Bible teaching from the newly-emergent Calvinists and neo-Anglicans meant she started to have money too (seek ye first the kingdom of God)... so out goes Drake, in comes goods from the New World, and she can go toe-to-toe with even a Spanish Armada, meanwhile establishing routes and even colonies of her own.

Whew. And to flee all that religious strife, my ancestors would get on a boat and find refuge. One Catholic, one Protestant. Your relatives too, really. We all came from there, whether slave or free, at first. The European continent's interest in Bible quickly stultified into political wars, but those just wanting to learn it privately, packed up their Bibles and few goods.. and sailed the ocean blue.

    For AMERICA, was the new EXODUS: by 1780 it would become a nation of its own, exactly 3220 years -- the length of Matt24-25 in syllable counts -- after that initial Exodus.

    America still is the world's Exodus. Pity today's white nationalists, ALL OF THEM INITIALLY IMMIGRANTS, just like that initial Exodus generation of ALL COLORS had been.. but who never learn Bible.

You know the rest: American colonies form while Europe keeps fighting its religious wars, culminating in the War of the Austrian Succession, when Matthew 25 begins, with its split 50/50 wise and foolish virgins. Wise, if learning Bible; foolish, if not. All because of the English Reformation.

From there, the continuing wars make even England's George III starve for funds, so now we the colonies are oppressed, so we revolt. And that's our formation, 1776 to 1789, Matt25:3, leaving the foolish virgins without oil, to finish their wars.. on the Continent.

Of course, we newly-minted 'Americans' quickly became foolish, too. And weirdly, for who didn't know the story about Jacob and Joseph? Jacob's 'slavery' was INDENTURE, but Joseph's was via KIDNAPPING, so the latter ORIGIN to being a 'slave' was outlawed, in Exodus (21:16). Anyone bought for whatever reason had to be freed if he believed in Christ, same law in same book; thus Paul argued for freeing Onesimus, even tho he stole from Philemon (v.10). And aren't all of us slaves to Christ? By CONTRACT, since we BELIEVED?

Yet within 100 years America would 50/50 split too, and fight the Civil War over this. In many ways, most poignantly demonstrated in the 2016 election.. civil war, continues. Of course by now, Bible interest is at an all-time high but in a very small portion of the population.

So now we come to our next and
4th anaphora, syll 1993-2000, covering 2023-2030 AD,
ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν·, 'and answering (them) He said:
Then the anaphora itself, running from 2030-2041,
ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, Believe it when I tell you, 6 2006 ‐1532 (last ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν =474/3=158
οὐκ οἶδα ὑμᾶς. 'I don't know you'

Ouch. That's the Roman practice of disowning. You're the kid, you disobeyed, you ran away; you come home and your own father won't even allow you in the door, claiming you a stranger tho clearly you are not.

We've already seen what happens when God has to answer. He answered Job out of the tornado, Hosea invokes it in his own Chapter 4. My people perish for lack of truth knowledge. So that turning-away means Divine Judgment, and since jurisprudence is always based on precedent, we've had three anaphora precedents to understand this future.

It's not good. We disown God when we argue against immigration and free trade, as both were core to Israel's BIRTH and hence the Mosaic Law. That's why some forms of what we call 'slavery' were legal, as they were based on FREE CONSENT TRANSACTIONS. The slave could even refuse to go free (see 1st half of Exodus). All the world's slavery practices at the time Israel was born were thus not outlawed, but once an Israeli TRADED using those practices, new laws applied, whether the Israeli was a believer or not, a citizen or not.

The world quickly took notice, since Israel got all its money from TRADE, and was deliberately chosen by God to be the nexus of three continents so anyone could IMMIGRATE there and get Bible directly. So slavery laws around the world started to change to conform to that little country's weird God's laws. And the world, gradually civilized.

Today, there's not a constitution on the planet which isn't based on the Mosaic Law. But the Exodus Country of America would rescind it all, voting in a vile, defrauding, cheating, lying, immoral, ignorant man who got elected based on promising to rescind it all?

What do you think God must 'answer'? NOT GOOD.

Author:  brainout [ 25 Nov 2016, 01:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Important: CNTTS apparatus in Bibleworks 9 adds 'hos gar' in front of hotan in Matt24:32. The ms is called '700', and is 11th century, Aland Category III. It's the only witness, but that was also true for tois ethnesin in Jude, so I wouldn't rule it out. Although in the same speech Christ uses hos.gar, to put both here doesn't make sense; yet gar alone still makes sense as post-positive to hotan. One of the variants lists it, but only in one 9th century ms named 'theta'.

Several manuscripts add estin but the question is which place, before or after theros.

THAT COULD CHANGE EVERYTHING by 3 years. Would be hard to prove, tho.

Would only change THAT verse. the 1110 becomes 1113 as it keeps on wanting to be, and of course 1082 becomes 1085, matching Luke 21.
So where to subtract 3 syllables after? Dunno yet. Can treat Noah as one syll each, and then in verse 43c, can cut a syllable from either εἴασεν OR διορυχθῆναι, probably the latter.

Author:  brainout [ 14 Dec 2016, 16:05 ]
Post subject:  Matt24:27-31 800's et seq AD

Okay, there's so much evidence of the meaning of each clause in Matt24-25 that I'm just gonna make single entries for relevant clauses and their backup data, as I find them. The backup data will largely be from Wiki, only cuz they usually have a bibliography at the bottom. Do your own research.

Here, we're looking at the pivotal period of Charlesmagne and his kiddies,
Matt 24:27, the first instance of the parousia anaphora, which I'm trying to track.

Matt24:27 UBS wrote:
27 ὥσπερ γὰρ ἡ ἀστραπὴ ἐξέρχεται ἀπὸ ἀνατολῶν καὶ φαίνεται ἕως δυσμῶν, 24 817
οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· 16 833

The numbers after the phrases are syllable counts, still using . That's the latest revision. More revision is needed, but I'll not do it until I'm sure what else extra anaphora do.

What's significant here:
* Charlesmagne, who had been ruling the Franks since 1768, is as a consequence of helping the Pope defeat the Lombards, crowned 1st Holy Roman Emperor in 800 (-30, to get same year in the meter). He dies 14 years later.

*Louis the German, an heir, conquers Moravia in 846 (816 in the meter), and as a consequence orders their Christianisation. The guy he puts in to do that, is . I can't find the ref which said the Christianization started in 847 (817 in the meter), right now. But you can see from that link that by 863 (833 in the meter), our boy Rots got Cyril and Methodius there; THEY TRANSLATED BIBLE into a new alphabet they created so the Moravians could read it.

* THIS WOULD GIVE BIRTH TO THE EVANGELIZATION OF THE SLAVS, and eventually the Rus adoption of Christianity. So it's a big deal, and fundamental to tracing what happened to Byzantium after it effectively died.

Of immediate importance besides the Bible going out, was the fact that Rots would later rebel against Louis the German amidst a theological controversy known as the Photian schism (link below). Thus the takeover of Moravia would become the instrument whereby the final split called the Great Schism in 1054, satirized in Matt24:31b as collecting the elect.. would occur.

So look: by this point the Latins didn't know Greek and the Greeks didn't know Latin, and they hated each other. But those POSITIVE TO BIBLE would need the Greek and even Hebrew mss (tho Charlesmagne and his kiddies fostered learning them all, briefly), so this conflict would have people changing sides. So those defecting to the Latin side would bring their Greek texts, and vice versa. So the TEXTS end up being COLLECTED, get the pun in v.31, which has three clauses (ending 1034, 1055, 1066 AD respectively)?

For the theme of these Matt chaps is Christ tracing the 'salt' future rise and fall of Bible interest, distribution, freedom. Here, 'parousia' (Appearing) is metaphor, since BIBLE is appearing to people who never saw it before.

I don't yet know how parousia anaphora relate to amen legw humin clauses.

Related links: (free download, on history of France starting w Carolingians)

Author:  brainout [ 14 Dec 2016, 17:17 ]
Post subject:  Use of Kurios as anaphora keyword in Matt24-25

As for the kurios keyword reference (Christ uses specialized names for Himself in paragraphs), which run from Matt24:42-50, all these refs appear to be of BIBLE TRANSLATIONS undertaken by reformers,
thread list:

Bible editions: (free download)

The Matt25 kurios refs are POVs, with numphios maybe replacing THE Lord in Matt24. Not sure, needs more testing. Obviously can have significance of one falsely calling Lord someone NOT 'the' Lord.

Refs are in Matt25:11, 18-20, 22-24, 37, 44. The last two have JSC and GWTJ language.

IF each kurios ref means Bible disseminated via translation or mss, then there seems to be a massive upgrade coming after our generation, given the above refs. Implication is that nations outside the US and Europe, who are the centers for the mss, will then become interested in them. I do know that there are many missionary societies today who are busy translating the Bible into the tongues of small isolated groups (search on Tyndale in vimeo for their vids on this).

Author:  brainout [ 16 Dec 2016, 13:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Matt24-25 usage of parousias and ho huios tou anthropou

By contrast, the παρουσίας references, which start in Matt24:3, seem to talk about when folks ENCOUNTER missionaries and convert. So He 'appears' to them via the missionaries, they learn the doctrines enough to convert (even if often for secular reasons or monetary gain).

    Really important: this accounts for why the distances between parousia clauses always seven. I didn't notice that when we parsed through revision 5, but I did notice that the sevening was out of place, not at the end of a paragraph as is normal in Bible meter I've found so far. So I thought I miscounted the syllables. But now that I see EVERY parousia clause is a seven-factor distant from the prior and next one, it means the distances are deliberate, no matter whether they end the paragraph textually.. or not.

    The other implication is that I didn't think to make parousia follow the YA sound, so it's always counted at four syllables. So then maybe my YA assumptions for sound on similar endings, is wrong. Will have to revisit. For how else can I explain the consistent sevening of parousia clauses I didn't want to see sevened?

    Finally, note how clever: Christ's theme throughout is you don't know when He's coming back, and He will SUDDENLY INTERRUPT when He does, and it will be OBVIOUS when He does. So, He uses the imminency of Rapture (and hence 2nd Advent, in that you can't know when Trib STARTS).. to piggyback on the sudden appearance of MISSIONARIES and BIBLE TEACHERS and BIBLE to a person/people. So that's why the parousia clauses don't come neatly at the end of a paragraph, yet seven.

    So if we've erred in counting syllables, the error is dual: one word is over counted and another, under counted. BETWEEN the sevens. Handy way to know how to audit the text and fix our elision assumptions!

That first Matt24:3 ref is by the apostles to Christ, so that's your big clue that parousia will be analogized to Word Represented. Next time the term shows up is in Matt24:27, followed by 37, 39.

Closely related and embedded, tho, is the expression ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. which is in the above verses and Matt24:30, 44. I don't know how to interpret its embedding.

What I do know, is that Matt24:27-30 are periods of intense Viking migration and conversion, including the first time (847ff) that Bible is translated into a new alphabet for Moravia. This led to the Christianisation of the Rus, who are also a Viking related people as well as the seemingly-already-established, Slavs.

Matt24:27 covers 823 (subtract 30 for the meter benchmark) through 863; with 847, being when Louis the German conquered Moravia and then Cyril et Methodius created the alphabet for translating Vulgate into Moravian.

    Luke 21:27 maps to Matt24:26 at 780, using ho huios tou anthropou starting at Luke's syll 756 (which is divisible by 7, lol). Luke will use the phrase again in his last verse, 36, ending at 1085, which of course also sevens back to the phrase at both ends of his verse 27. Cute: 1085-7=1078, the syll count including ellipses, in Isaiah 53. So now I really suspect Matt24:32 should end at 1085, not 1082 unless Luke is adjusting for Varro's error.

    Not only that, but he creates a biting commentary on how the believers were NOT listening to Christ. Cuz, the Daniel 7:13 meaning is not only savior, but Judge...

    Match the syllables to each other as you read.

    Matt24:26 sylls 751-780
    ἰδοὺ προείρηκα ὑμῖν. 8 758
    26 ἐὰν οὖν εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν· 8 766
    ἰδοὺ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ἐστίν, μὴ ἐξέλθητε 14 780

    Luke 21:27 sylls 751-780
    [kai] τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλῃ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς. 31 780

    Which is a concatenation of what Christ says in Matt 24:30. QUOTING MATT. So bookends EARLIER to 24:26.

    That's not all. Matt24:32, sylls 1072-1082 read
    γινώσκετε ὅτι ἐγγὺς τὸ θέρος
    Luke 1:36, end, same sylls+3, read
    καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.

    Cute, huh.

Matt24:30 covers 945 to 1015, when most of the stuff I've read on Viking conversions, occurs. This is the period of Erik the Red; 988 is called 'the baptism of the Rus'. This is deemed start of Kievian Rus as a polity, tho its people started converting in the Matt24:27 period as a result of the Bible being in a language they could read. It is also a period of extensive monastic reform that had significant teaching and economic impact wherever it expanded.

What's distinctive of this period is the independence from the Church. Given the new monastic separation (beholding only to the Pope, which meant autonomous), it's easy to see how that independent style would attract plunder, yet also endear the Vikings, whose political culture was much more familial so independent so federal, therefore the idea of some all-ruling pope never caught on. How ironic.

Then again, if you wanted Bible but didn't like the Papist trappings, retreat to a monastery was THE ONLY way to get what you wanted.

But the later ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου refs don't seem to focus on them, but back to Europe?

Matt24:37 spans 1229-1255, a period of those little Paris/Italy Bibles being so popularly used by the many itinerant friars of the Dominicans and Franciscans of the period, as noted in DeHamel's book. People were well enough acquainted with Bible to misread Daniel 12 on the 1260, so they were expecting the world to end in that YEAR.

One big reason they WERE acquainted, was the sack of Constantinople in 1204; its massive library was sacked and taken back to Rome, who with Paris had long exchanged Bible mss between their universities. So the mss the East had, came to the West, who ransacked the Greeks passim ever since the Great Schism of 1054.

With the Mongol hordes still invading Russia and Eastern Europe (finally stopped at Warsaw I think, in 1294), and with the last Crusades going on (which stopped in the Middle East in 1291), it's easy to see how they would misinterpret Daniel 12. But the point is, they were familiar enough with the Bible TO misread it. As DeHamel records, they lost interest in Bible when the expected 2nd coming (clever, given how 37b reads) .. didn't happen. So they didn't want Christ His Word, but a thrill. Picture Bibles were also developed during that time, to help speed comprehension, and fell out of vogue after 1260 (ibid).

Next, is Matt24:39, which spans from 1305-1339, and is a warning. 1315-1317 was the Great Famine period, which (see wry context of the verse re Noah) was caused by TOO MUCH RAIN. The harvests wouldn't dry, so no fodder for animals nor food for man. It would keep on repeating in short bursts from this time onward. The Medieval Warm Period was ending also, meaning it was now too cold for crops to grow well, too. Leviticus 26, Deut28 warnings, then. For folks HAD those small Bibles, KNEW enough of what was in them to MISREAD Daniel 12.. and didn't grow spiritually. They had from 1170 when those Bibles first started coming out of Paris and going to the intinerant monks, so that's 4 generations...

Matt24:44 could be broken up into clauses, but I didn't. Spans 1463-1495. It's a closing lesson: for this reason you should LEARN, make ready: as you can't calculate the hour, when the Son of Man comes.

So did they? No. They turned the crusades inward from 1291 onward, picking rich pockets of Jews or others by calling them heretics. The Popes offered indulgences now for anyone who went after someone deemed a heretic, INSIDE one's country, or in a neighbor's. But by this time we had Gutenberg's method of printing, which rapidly became popular for all books; prior, we had the Italian Renaissance which began when Hus was just learning about Wycliffe, thus famous, his translations out and hoarded, as were Wycliffe's; there were a few other translations. The mss had come out a bit owing to the folks fleeing from the Middle East from the Crusades, especially in 1204 when the Latin Crusaders sacked Constantinople. So 'making ready' was thus done by some, and the idea of rejecting the RCC was widespread by many.

Meanwhile, Constantinople had been definitively ended as a 'Christian' location, its Byzantine Empire by then shrunk to a few small spaces; now, since 1453 (same year as Gutenberg started his first printing but not yet published), the erstwhile New Rome (name Constantine gave it).. was finally under the Ottomans. So only the WEST remained, as a major place you could find Bible.

But the West, was in various stages of war, both civil and international. 1469 saw the renewal of who's-the-rightful-king-of-France, so the Hundred Years' war which allegedly started in 1337, didn't end 100 years later. You had rival popes, which started in the West really a bit before the official 1378 'Great (or 'Western') Schism', between Avignon and Rome. You had civil wars within the countries owing to these greater competitions, with groups of people picking one side or the other. Of course, the Black Death would resurface again and again in smaller sections, notably leaving OUT, most of Poland, Milan, Pyrenees.

But you also had renewed interest in the Hebrew, Greek, and translations. Lorenzo Valla of Italy, shortly before he died, compiled Greek mss he called Collatio Novo Testamenti, in it seems 1442, which Erasmus would later use. The Jews were expelled from England in 1290, so went to the continent where they had successive expulsions from France (of course, Henry called himself King of Normandy even then), in 1305 and following. So the Jews went to Spain and Portugal, who finally threw off the Arab yoke and shortly thereafter expelled the Jews too. But meanwhile, the Jews brought their OT in Hebrew with them, and so the West had access. After each expulsion, the area expelling plunged into internal 'crusades', civil war, and declined economically. The Jews finally found a more permanent home in Poland and Milan, just in time for the Black Death. So one could vote with his feet to find Bible.

Missionary activity went seaward during this time. Gold and God, in that order. So in that sense, the prior meanings we saw for the Vikings of ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, but this time in Matt24:44.. now continue with the mostly Spanish and Portuguese, sailing outward.

So are you surprised that v.44's ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ends at syll 1462 aka 1492 AD? In 1492, Columbo sailed the ocean blue.. maybe with a newly-minted copy of the Hebrew text, just then being published in Lisbon and Italy.

Oh: and the syll distance between the NEXT syll and the syll just BEFORE the ho kurios in Matt24:45 is (drum roll please).. 21! Divisible by seven! And of course THAT ho kurios is.. the Reformation.

So now we see two key facts relative to historical prosperity/adversity:

1. If you want Bible, you want to favor the Jews, if only for the selfish reason they have at least initially, more knowledge of the Hebrew.

2. If you want Bible, you want to learn to read. In fact, most folks even through the 20th century learned how to read, from learning Bible (i.e., even in the Dust Bowl they learned to read from KJV and from Sears Catalogue).

So notice: if you want Bible, you find someone who has one and can read it, and essentially contract with them formally or informally, to learn to read it yourself. That makes you a better worker, as you're motivated; that makes you a more valuable employee especially once you learn to read; so you get promoted. God promotes what you're attached to, so you can get the Word (seek ye first the Kingdom of God), so what you're attached to, is prospered even if they are not as interested.

Multiply that over a whole region, and it's easy to plot how increase in Bible interest resulted in more monks, missionaries, Bibles and better treatment of the Jews, hence agriculture and other economic and political increasing prosperity; how when the Jews are expelled, there is a contravening (tho maybe not universal) hostility to Bible.

Just as Lev26, Deut 28 say. In the patterns we know from history, which so far, Christ wryly annotates by year.

The Son of Man title used, has often been mistaken to mean only 'prophet'. It should be translated son of ADAM, cuz in Dan7:13 the Hebrew is different, son of man (Aramaic bar enosh, generic nature).

Son of Adam term is literal, but comes to mean 'prophet', as the prophets were all fallen like Adam was. First obvious use of it this way, is in Ezekiel 2:1, though prior uses of Ben Adam are many. It's the exclusive title used for Ezekiel throughout his book. Noteworthy is Eze40:4, where Christ in theophany is called ISH in the Hebrew. But not Adam. And of course, Eze40 is about the Millennial Temple, and Christ WILL BE AGAIN manifest as MAN then.

Interestingly enough, the last Son of Adam usage is in Daniel 8:17, with God addressing Daniel as Son of Adam. Same vocative style as used for Ezekiel, who was his younger contemporary.

So we can infer it means someONE discoursing on the Word of God.

Christ always inserts articles, ho huios tou anthropou. Two-article usage is a title, not merely monadic, same as for official calendar dates in the OT (same in Luke 1:26 versus :36). THE Son of MAN (not Adam, but the Last Adam). Really clear in the Greek versus OT, dunno why there is so much confusion.

Really boring videos demonstrating all this live in Bible, start here.

. :vikinggirl: :vikinggirl: :vikinggirl: .

So now, back to Matt24-25 and the anaphora. Notice the interplay between amen legw humin, kurios, parousia, ho huios tou anthropou (which in Dan7:13 LXX omits the articles, just as other LXX refs do). They are meant as anaphora in some kind of causal sequence. I don't yet know how to describe it. What I do know, is that this sequence is in descending order of intensity, and is thesauretical. Notice also that numphios in Matt25, is used as a synonym for kurios, but obviously the relationship is restricted to BELIEVERS (parthenoi).

So Christ EQUATES yet RANKS His 'appearance' or 'coming' to people with the coming of His Word in the mouths of sons of men who expiate, explain, translate and transcribe it.

We'll see the most interesting interrelationships between these anaphora (term is neuter in Greek), from now on, as now we enter THE REFORMATION.

Author:  brainout [ 20 Dec 2016, 02:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I'm not sure how to read the text as it might relate to the rise and fall of the Byzantine Empire, which impacted the development of the Balkans and Russia. Portal link is here:

Text seems to favor concentration on the West, not the East, and traces the parousia of Word to the West from the East. So far, none of the Eastern dates seem benchmarked by the text?

Author:  brainout [ 22 Dec 2016, 22:03 ]
Post subject:  Kurios distances are SEVENED. Same kurios-numphios

Okay, now I'm officially creeped out. The DISTANCE from one kurios to the next, is divisible by seven. Sometimes you start the count at the beginning (including the article) and sometimes at the end, through the NEXT full occurrence, and sometimes between them.

ALSO, the count from the last kurios to the next numphios (exclusive to Matt25) is also divisible by seven, viz the last ὁ κύριος in Matt24 is at verse 50, and it runs from syll 1610-1612. Add 30 to get AD, and it's 1640 (end of the historical voting period after Christ's death 1050+490+70) and the end of the English Reformation, per historians. So then 1640-42.

First τοῦ νυμφίου ref is in Matt25:1 and ends the verse at syll 1719.
1717-1612=105, here counting BOTH FIRST SYLLABLES of each term.

Please kill me now.

:step1: ὁ κύριος in Matt24 is at verse 42, sylls 1373-1375. Stands for Wycliffe&JanHus when you add 30 to convert to our AD.

:step2: Matt24:45, sylls 1485-1487. So 1487-1375=112, 16 sevens. Stands for Zwingli, Erasmus, Luther from 1515-1517. And also, for their 'houses' of Bible translations, at least in English, based largely on what these three did ('houses' phrase is wry, huh): ... -challenge

:step3: Matt24:46, sylls 1520-22. So 1522-1487=35. Stands for 1550-1552, John Knox after he got out of prison and went to England teaching, at least; could stand for Calvin, as during those years Calvin faced Geneva opposition while teaching. During these years, both were foreigners with new teaching positions, arguing for ONLY BIBLE. This is when Stephanus mss and the Geneva Bible come out, too.

:step4: Matt24:48, sylls 1581-83. Here it changes: 1583-1520 (so now includes BOTH instances), is 63. Period AD is 1611-1613. Easy to see why: 1611 was the KJV made official English translation, and it was revised each year thereafter. If you count the oddly proleptic ἐλθὼν for HIS COMING prior, then you go back to 1609 when Douhay-Rheims done (see above link).

:step5: So v.50, noted above, from syll 1610-1612, stands for 1640-1642. Its distance is more sophisticated. Historically, the 1611 KJV was developed directly from Erasmus. But Erasmus, got some of his Greek text from what Zwingli had. So now notice: 1611-28=1583, which are syllable counts, not AD years.

Or, you can count from 1610 syll back 28 and get 1582, counting the whole year before the prior ho kurios starts. Other Bibles were then printed, here's a free download of the editions, ... 2&lpg=PA62

The 'Royal' listings are KJV Bibles, as that was the printing company authorized to print ('authorized' had to do with the publisher getting the license, and the KJV is still copyrighted to this day; publishers get around it by adding stuff to the Bible and thus publishing the same text with additions as a 'new edition').

As each print run was limited, the annual printings of the KJV were updated each time to fix prior errors. So there is nothing special about 1611 except it was the first print run.

But there was something special about the Bible publishing in 1640: it was really only part of a Bible, but was the first published in America, the Bay Psalm book.. and it was METERED. Toward the bottom of that Wiki page there's an example of Psalm 88 being metered. So, I checked versus the Hebrew we have. They didn't meter the title (Bible always does, but maybe they didn't know that).. but the Hebrew syllables in verses 1 and 2 AFTER the title, match the ENGLISH syllable counts.

A longer sample of it is in the Appendix of this book recording the initial 1640 edition, here (free download): ... &lpg=PA177

The longer sample is hard to search for; it's on page 371 of the book, called the 'New England' edition rather than 'Bay Psalm', and begins at left-counter '28' on that page, ... &lpg=PA371

So now compare to the Hebrew. It's clear they are counting what they think are the HEBREW SYLLABLES and then making English to FIT their counts.

Someone please kill me. I've been looking for a smoking gun like this since 2004.

Cuz 364 years after 1640, I first realized Isaiah 53 is metered, and started trying to figure out what words might be missing from the Great Isaiah scroll. You can see me do that in . I had first learned the 1050s not by meter, but by the begats. My pastor suspected the 490 was a recurring thing, in his last two classes on Daniel, but I didn't hear them until 2008 or so, when I'd already done the Isaiah meter, which is in Youtube ( ... 4356BE4BDC ) and vimeo (final version, )

But that's not the first time METER was employed! If you search on 'metre', 'meeter' (Dutch spelling) and 'meter' you'll find earlier metered sections, mostly on Psalms, but guess what? JOHN KNOX metered Deut 32, Song of Moses! I can't find a pic of it, but found the listing here, Catalogue listing 738: ... &lpg=PA143
It was printed in 1615, but Knox was long dead by then, so I don't know when he wrote it.

Or maybe the syll counts are wrong between verses 48 and 50? Or there's a shift in fiscal, or we're looking ad mid-years (so .5 on one side or the other but you can't use half a syllable so the total is one off a sevening)?

It is true that the historic importance of the KJV to newly-forming American colonies was vast. Ironic too, that if this is an intentional 28, that the KJV-onlyists YES have a prediction of their Bible.. but not in ENGLISH, lol. A prophecy they couldn't read, unless reading the inspired Greek which is CLEARLY preserved, for the syllable counts.. SEVEN.

If you look at that whole paragraph from verse 42 on, it's so wry a commentary on 1386-1703 AD, you lose breath.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 24 Dec 2016, 04:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Wow, you just made my Christmas. I don't know if there are variances in the Hebrew of Psalm 1, but in Psa 1:1a, I get 14 syl, and Psa 1:1b-2a I get 28 syl.

[ אַ֥שְֽׁרֵי־הָאִ֗ישׁ אֲשֶׁ֤ר ׀ לֹ֥א הָלַךְ֮ בַּעֲצַ֪ת רְשָׁ֫עִ֥ים =14 ]

[ וּבְדֶ֣רֶךְ חַ֭טָּאִים לֹ֥א עָמָ֑ד וּבְמֹושַׁ֥ב לֵ֝צִ֗ים לֹ֣א יָשָֽׁב כִּ֤י אִ֥ם בְּתֹורַ֥ת יְהוָ֗ה חֶ֫פְצֹ֥ו=28]

Then I get a 49 in Psa 1:2b-3, so a sum total of 91 (seasonal pun).

[ וּֽבְתֹורָתֹ֥ו יֶהְגֶּ֗ה יֹומָ֥ם וָלָֽיְלָה׃ = 12 ]

(12 hour days/nights)

[ וְֽהָיָ֗ה כְּעֵץ֮ שָׁת֪וּל עַֽל־פַּלְגֵ֫י מָ֥יִם אֲשֶׁ֤ר פִּרְיֹ֨ו ׀ יִתֵּ֬ן בְּעִתֹּ֗ו = 21]

(12+21=33 Christ baring fruit in season)

[ וְעָלֵ֥הוּ לֹֽא־יִבֹּ֑ול וְכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁר־יַעֲשֶׂ֣ה יַצְלִֽיחַ׃=16]


Author:  brainout [ 25 Dec 2016, 14:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Okay, so the datelines are 14 AND 28. Doesn't matter the meter doesn't suit our verse names. Sum is 42. Have to think over what that means. For sure Psalm 1 isn't the earliest Psalm (which we know, cuz Psalm 90 is by Moses).

How about this idea,

I'm 42 when I write, was anointed king by Samuel 28 years ago when I was 14, have been king 12 years; 14 years from now, I will have 21 years left to live.

Not sure what the 16 references. It's not sevened, but may have to do with his offspring.

So now let's all kill ourselves. Look at the Last Words of David, 2Sam23:1-3, count the syllables there.

Happens that, at our first numphios which spans 1748-49, two metrical translations were made, one of Job and another of those same last words, the latter being 1749 and available for sale at Amazon, here: ... 1170259006

Listings of those dates are here: ... 2&lpg=PA92

Here's a more-easily-searched and downloadable version, ... 0_djvu.txt

So I made an 8-part subseries showing this book and the arrogant reason why the 'scholars' did NOT pay close attention to the wider purpose of the meter,

Kill me now. Lemme know what syllable count you get in 2Sam23:1-3, cuz it's our smoking gun, been looking for this kind of thing since 2004-2005 when I learned David died at age 77 from 1Kings 6:1.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 25 Dec 2016, 18:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

K. Here is 2 Sam 23:1-7. The meter didn't break evenly at verse 3, so I just did all 7 verses. I think I got all the elisions marked, but double count behind me and let me know if its off. Also, let me know if you think it should be elided differently.

Verse 1
20 וְאֵ֛לֶּה דִּבְרֵ֥י דָוִ֖ד הָאַֽחֲרֹנִ֑ים נְאֻ֧ם דָּוִ֣ד בֶּן־יִשַׁ֗י

27 וּנְאֻ֤ם הַגֶּ֙בֶר֙ הֻ֣קַם עָ֔ל מְשִׁ֙יחַ֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וּנְעִ֖ים זְמִרֹ֥ות יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃

Verse 2
15 ר֥וּחַ יְהוָ֖ה דִּבֶּר־בִּ֑י וּמִלָּתֹ֖ו עַל־לְשֹׁונִֽי׃

Verse 3
15 אָמַר֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לִ֥י דִבֶּ֖ר צ֣וּר יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל

Paragraph Total: 77

14 מֹושֵׁל֙ בָּאָדָ֔ם צַדִּ֕יק מֹושֵׁ֖ל יִרְאַ֥ת אֱלֹהִֽים׃

Paragraph Total: 14

Verse 4
13 וּכְאֹ֥ור בֹּ֖קֶר יִזְרַח־שָׁ֑מֶשׁ בֹּ֚קֶר לֹ֣א עָבֹ֔ות

11 מִנֹּ֥גַהּ מִמָּטָ֖ר דֶּ֥שֶׁא מֵאָֽרֶץ׃

Verse 5
7 כִּֽי־לֹא־כֵ֥ן בֵּיתִ֖י עִם־אֵ֑ל

16 כִּי֩ בְרִ֨ית עֹולָ֜ם שָׂ֣ם לִ֗י עֲרוּכָ֤ה בַכֹּל֙ וּשְׁמֻרָ֔ה

13 כִּֽי־כָל־יִשְׁעִ֥י וְכָל־חֵ֖פֶץ כִּֽי־לֹ֥א יַצְמִֽיחַ׃

Verse 6
12 וּבְלִיַּ֕עַל כְּקֹ֥וץ מֻנָ֖ד כֻּלָּ֑הַם

7 כִּֽי־לֹ֥א בְיָ֖ד יִקָּֽחוּ׃

Verse 7
15 וְאִישׁ֙ יִגַּ֣ע בָּהֶ֔ם יִמָּלֵ֥א בַרְזֶ֖ל וְעֵ֣ץ חֲנִ֑ית

11 וּבָאֵ֕שׁ שָׂרֹ֥וף יִשָּׂרְפ֖וּ בַּשָּֽׁבֶת׃ פ

Paragraph Total: 105
Sum Total=196

Author:  brainout [ 25 Dec 2016, 20:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Okay, well I got the 91 by the end of verse 3, in part cuz I counted neum as two syllables. Got 77, the first time it sevened, in the middle of v.3, by the end of אָמַר֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לִ֥י דִבֶּ֖ר צ֣וּר יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 25 Dec 2016, 21:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Ok, I got the 77 if I treat ne'um as two syllables and une'um as three, but remember, that Zephaniah seems to treat ne'um as one syllable.

And, we have to treat דִּבְרֵ֥י in verse 1 as diverei instead of divrei, in order to reach 77.

I'll have to see how the rest of the meter works before I can know for sure.

clause 1= 20
clause 2= 27
clause 3= 15
clause 4= 15



I went back and change the meter post on 2 Sam. I got 77+14+105 now, though I don't know its really correct. Before, I had the 91 ending at verse 5 (making salvation and desire grow). It seems like a seasonal thing, like bearing fruit. I'll have to think it over.

Author:  brainout [ 25 Dec 2016, 22:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Okay, well if you can get 77 some other way (maybe other words have a +1 so you can still say divrei), lemme know. It has to be deliberate, and it has to be by clause.

I still suspect the 42 occurs, just not sure where. Cuz Isaiah 53 breaks 52:13-14 as 42, then 35. So maybe either it's also in Psalm 1 or 2Sam23, the meter would have to be in Isaiah, something the reader would already know. For Matthew 1 uses the 42, and Luke 3 uses the 77.

I'm so excited I can't see straight. Been looking for proof in the meter BY David for a long time.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 25 Dec 2016, 22:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

So what do you think is the doctrinal significance of having a 91 one at the end of verse 3, over ending in verse 5? I just need to reconcile that before I can be comfortable with either version. Cuz I really had a problem with some of my old elisions too, so I am split right down the middle.

Author:  brainout [ 25 Dec 2016, 22:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Look at the text of verse 3, for your answer. Really pretty clever. If not clear, then I'll elaborate, but I bet you'll have a bigger enjoyment if I ask you go ask God and guess...

HINT: compare the text of Psalm 1 to the same 91 here.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 25 Dec 2016, 22:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Yeah, I see it now. A righteous ruler is as a fruit bearing tree, firmly planted by the stream of God's word. Its about the work that God does through us.

Author:  brainout [ 25 Dec 2016, 23:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

BINGO. Notice how 2Sam23:3 'answers' Psalm 1:1-3.


Author:  brainout [ 26 Dec 2016, 02:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

PS it's not a problem that Zephaniah, written some 500+ years after David, would smoosh syllables. So in David's day maybe two syllables ne-um, but by Zeph's, a dipthong of one syllable. Just as Deut 6:4 should be pronounced SHE-MAAH, but modern Jews say SHMAAH.

Author:  brainout [ 28 Dec 2016, 00:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: Yep, Eph1:1-2 is metered!

You did it again, Anonynomenon: yep, I see the Eph1:1-2 meter now. Verse 1, 33, same as Christ's age at death; verse 2 (standard formula which Peter and Jude use, lyrical), 23 syllables, the number of years' elapse after Christ died. So maybe this is the earliest use of non-sevening for dateline meter, rather than how John (who also uses it that way). So Paul's writing in 59 AD by our timing, since we use Varro's ab urbe condita which has net 3 too many years in it (really four, but Christ is born at the end of one of them, hence we are all stuck with saying end 4 BC).

My hangup was the insertion of the en+Place, but grammatically it's not needed. Isaiah 57:19 LXX uses the same ousin kai structure, somewhat poetic. The mss leave en Ephesw out or include it IN THE MARGIN (i.e., Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, Bibleworks has indexed those mss).. which wrecks the meter if you include it in the text. But the mss don't include it in the text. AHA.

Hi, I Paul write after Christ Died at age 33, which was 23 years after Judaea became a Roman province, which is 109 years after Crassus sacked the Temple, though due to Varro's error we have to say 112 if measuring from ab urbe condita; which error also reflects the fact Christ shoulda been 56 when I write, had He been born per the original Abrahamic schedule of 2000 years after Jacob, in 4106 after Adam's fall.

Whereupon, in v.3, Paul neatly starts with Christ's birth and then his second dateline is 112 really (but the new 56 is in its own new subsevened package of 434, playing on Daniel's 62nd week BECAUSE He died at 33, and BECAUSE He was really born 4103). So Paul just minuses 3 like we do, to start the AD clean. THAT is why it tracks so perfectly to the Roman history (then future) which we HAVE.

Added bonus: Daniel 9 left out 56 from his ending meter, using only 742 sylls (think 5x1050 minus 56, cuz there are 750 sevens in 5250). Cuz he's praying for the finish of history, knowing that all but the 56 (which is post-Messiah) can be reimbursed based on past time, just as Moses wrote in Psalm 90:16-17 (which is 56 syllables rather than 70), and just as Isaiah calc'd (using 42 not 56, as the 14 was already past Israel's deadline pre-Messiah).

PS this is why I call 56 'Vote Critical', whereas if 63 and time's up, it's Vote Short.

So what about that 91? Well, now it stands for the remaining 7 to Mill, cuz under the old AND new Schedules, Christ was supposed to be 91 when it would start. But it starts 3 years EARLIER due to Him having to be born 3 years earlier, and that in order to align with the 1st Temple starting late, 1Kings 6:1. Its own next 490 ends 30 AD, so if He's not accepted by Israel by then, He'll have to die (and will).

Golly, I've been looking for this smoking-gun proof since 2010. And all along YOU gave it, but again I was stubborn, and wouldn't LISTEN. Mea maxima culpa!

Crow sure tastes good!

I need an ambulance to restart my heart, it's overpowered with happy shock.

Author:  brainout [ 31 Dec 2016, 08:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

That answer on the 91 still isn't good enough. Still piecing more stuff together.

For example, now we see Paul's theme is quite wry:
starts with Crassus, a Roman general who will later be sacked, sacking the Jerusalem tample.

Paul's endpoint is 434 AD when a sacked Roman general extracts sack money from BOTH Western and Eastern Rome as ransom for not sacking them (Aetius, see here, here, and here).

Christ's start point was when Egypt was defeated by a general, too. 30 BC, she became a province of Rome. Of course at the end of Matt25 He is the Conqueror.

Cute. Any Roman would have gotten that immediately of course. They knew their history like we know the latest sitcoms, TV series, sports or pop songs.

Author:  brainout [ 06 Jan 2017, 01:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: How Luke 21 SEVENS to Matt24 keywords, sample

Still working on the 91, and will now hypothesize that Paul's getting it from Luke (thread here ), not Matt24. Why? Clever addition of 28+63 in Luke's two datelines equals 91, which is a play on the content of the chapter, the upcoming Tribulation.

Season of Church due to Trib not yet. Christ was supposed to be 91 when Trib began, had there been no Church. So it's the season of Church, not the Season of the Last Seven Daniel 9:27 years.

Another significance to 91 I didn't spot before: Chanukah is always the 85th day after autumnal equinox. 25 Chislev is the 85th day at sundown on the 84th day, which is the day forecast in Haggai 2 to Zerubbabel. So now if we counted 8 days from the 24th, we get the 92nd day, but it's piggybacked on the 91st day at sundown.

Luke's playing a very particular game with his syllable counts versus Matt24, and ends up sevening more, but I'm still not sure WHAT game. So a) Luke KNOWS Matt24 sevens at each anaphora and keyword occurrence, and b) does the same (but less often), ON the Matt24 syllable counts, RELATIVE TO HIS OWN syllable counts.

Still trying to figure out Luke's handle, but look:

Matt24:4, ending at syll 169, βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·
Luke moves it up to end at syll 112, Luke 21:8, βλέπετε μὴ πλανηθῆτε

Here's a wiki partial list of claimants, but it's slapdash,

199 AD: Septimus Severus is in power, and the chiliasts were expecting the Millennium to begin, falsely counting from ab urbe condita (753+199), which caused problems in Rome and fostered a bit of backlash against Christians. Also then was the rise of the claim that 'bishops' were vicars of Christ, and by 217 Demetrius of Alexandria for the first time 'helps' Julius Africanus claim Peter is on a bishop's list for Rome, in part to make Origen look less important (who will then (217) be courting the Severan mothers to get them to convert to Christianity).

Raw end-to-end distance is 57, ring a bell? However, if you count from the first syll in Matt you get 160-56=104, the last syll before Luke's 'requote' begins.

At 112, the focus is Bar Kochba aftermath. Depending on who you read, the rebellion was quelled in 135 AD, 7 years prior; with Jews thereafter being forbidden to enter the city; it's renamed Aeolia Capitolina, but it's not then finished in reconstruction. Judaea becomes Syria Palestina the following year, first time the name is used.

So what's the tie? Seems like the end of the world; plague (189), burning (190), Commodus going nuts so then assassinated (192) so civil war (Year of the Five Emperors, ending with Septimus Severus). The other tie? This is the heyday of that vile anti-semite, Tertullian, who couldn't read the Bible if it bit him,

False christ, him. Why anyone praises him I'll never fathom. The guy was a total spiritual retard.

Matt24:32, Ἀπὸ δὲ τῆς συκῆς, sylls 1037-42.
Luke 21:20, Καὶ εἶπεν παραβολὴν αὐτοῖς· ἴδετε τὴν συκῆν, sylls 821-34.

Note the τῆς συκῆς in Matt ends 1042. Note it begins in Luke, at 832. Distance? 210!

Now, the event Luke flags with the term is the same as the ending parousia clause in Matt 24:27, παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· which we know is an anaphora in Matt which Luke omits. But the end of the clause in Matt is 833, sevened. So Luke's use of τὴν συκῆν EXACTLY MEETS IT IN THE MIDDLE (so one syll on either side).

Import? Well, the Matt use of fig tree exactly coincides with the takeover of Jerusalem in 1071-73 as part of the Arabs warring with Byzantium.

But 210 years prior, 863, when Luke's in the middle of his use of fig tree, thus corresponding to Matt 24:27's 833: three years after Russia raided Byzantium (860), she converts; in the very year the Moravian alphabet was invented to evangelize the Moravians, as ordered by Louis the German. Bulgaria converts, the next year.

See the tie? Arabs and Normans were then invading Byzantium too. But 210 years later, Russia would be helping. for the 1071-73 invasion was the proximate cause of the Crusades.

No doubt that earlier raid in 860 brought with it Greek mss; so now when Russia converts, she has both translation and original script, for comparison, replete with the two guys who can read both (Cyril and Methodius).

Author:  brainout [ 10 Jan 2017, 08:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I'm still not coming up with anything definitive on 91 in Paul. Closest thing is a hypothesis that there are two basic time meter types:

A. Accounting, no 'theme' in the meter, except its totals based on 490, 1050, etc. Examples are Gen1, Daniel 9, Magnificat, Matt24-25, Luke 21.

B. Balancing the accounting to the Plan of God. These have themes and are symmetrical around them: Psalm 90, Isaiah 53, Eph1.

The 'A' writers tag the 'B' material. Moses tags Ps90 in Gen1, Daniel 9 tags Psalm 90 and Isaiah 53, Mary tagged them also along with Daniel, esp. Daniel 9:24-27.

So does Luke tag Paul? Not sure. Seems more the other way around, which goes against the hypothesis here. Paul definitely tags Matt24-25, so does Luke. Paul definitely tags Ps90, Isa53, even Dan9, also indirectly the Magnificat, but I can't see how he's tagging Luke directly.

Stumped. :?: :appleface: :cherryface: :grin:

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 11 Jan 2017, 02:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

A. Accounting, no 'theme' in the meter, except its totals based on 490, 1050, etc. Examples are Gen1, Daniel 9, Magnificat, Matt24-25, Luke 21.

B. Balancing the accounting to the Plan of God. These have themes and are symmetrical around them: Psalm 90, Isaiah 53, Eph1.

The 'A' writers tag the 'B' material. Moses tags Ps90 in Gen1, Daniel 9 tags Psalm 90 and Isaiah 53, Mary tagged them also along with Daniel, esp. Daniel 9:24-27.

Ok, so lets look at Psalm 90 versus Gen 1. Psalm 90 provides the skeletal structure, while Gen 1 puts meat on the bones. Hence, it would make more sense for the skeletal structure (B) to bear the general theme, whereas the organic structure (A) goes into the nuances.

But as you said, that would be the opposite, if Paul tags Matt 24

Author:  brainout [ 11 Jan 2017, 06:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Well, maybe it's a mix of both. And the other thing: OT timelines are sometimes dual (Ps90, Daniel 9). So what about the NT? In particular, is the Eph1:1-2 '56' a setup for a dual timeline? Luke 21 clearly brackets Matt24 to show different sevening results that are complementary. Is Paul doing that as well? Peter makes a song out of Paul; Jude, from Peter. I dunno about John yet. So what's the significance of those?

Questions, questions.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 13 Jan 2017, 02:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Im thinking about metering the first 4 seals in Revelation. Maybe it will tie in with Matt 24 since the Four Horsemen are Historical Trend regulators.

Author:  brainout [ 13 Jan 2017, 08:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Maybe. I keep wondering if John updates the Matt24-25 timeline past 3250AD.

Author:  brainout [ 18 Jan 2017, 01:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Okay, I think I got the themes now.

Christ plays Talmudic 7000 cuz he dies 4136 (which you round to 4137 to make the new total seven at 7357 by the end of the next 3220). Presumably that includes the Mill, but since it doesn't evenly end, you can't call it a true final literal calendar, just a map of the next 3220 years.

Luke then maps only a pre-post-Church 1050, to show the 1050 CIVILIZATION TREND. It's literal history, which you then use after the 1050 to know how to read the next 2 1050's in Matt. So a 1050 always ends in some kind of crusading, mass migration, etc. Ours ends 2130.

Paul then maps a 490, again same style as Luke, but only for the 490, to show how Church becomes apostate and how that affects the quality of the civilization. So Church apostatizes, life turns bad, then God cleans house during the intervening 70, and the 'Year' starts over again. So again, first literal history, but after that it becomes paradigmal.

So now we have three ways to read the Matt, Luke, Pauline text:
1. Literal for the generation getting it. So those alive 30AD would need all that text to know how to orient during their lifetimes.
2. Literal for the future generation just before Trib starts, for Matthew text. By then, they are supposed to know all the above, to know how to read the literal unfolding of the text for their own, shorter lifespans.
3. Paradigmal, to show historical trends.

So now, to Rev. Looks like Rev 6 reaffirms the trends, so its syllable counts should be interesting. Looks like a 490. Rev17 tags Ephesians 1:9 musterion to show FAKE CHURCH which Paul mapped out year by year, stressing the Constantinian takeover (I bet Rev17 tags Constantine as the trend of Fake Church, which trend will be true in the Trib as well).

The larger theme is the kidnapping of Bible, and how the few run away with it, so others can still get it; enough finally believe so it's freed up, then due to its popularity the faith politicizes, then the kidnapping begins all over again.

So now, here when the Bible even in the original mss is freely available, what kind of kidnapping trend occurs next? And when, cuz it looks like from 2062-2662, Bible is more accepted than ever before, since 1st century.

During the 1st century, there was no hierarchy, and everyone was free to get Scripture. There were occasional expulsions from an area or even from Rome, but Rome's policy was that the provinces had a right to their own religions. So after Christ died, you see a gradual increasing of politicizing Christianity, and when Constantine finally gets into power, it's CHRISTIANITY which becomes the tyrant. For awhile.

Wash rinse repeat. Each new 490's apostasy is more widespread and worse than the one prior, cuz a) Scripture is more available to more people, b) most individuals reach some maxed-out acceptance before spiritual adulthood, so go political or religious (same thing) about one's 'faith'; c) more who do not believe react against those who do more strongly, and since Bible is more available they make more arguments which center more and more on its own validity.

So each 1050 is marked by worldwide crusading of non-believers, not only believers, as this reaction progresses. That's where we are now, with Islam and others who are neither Jews nor Christians. But the Jews and Christians become more proprietary about their faiths rather than Bible too, as we're seeing now.

The English Reformation freed Bible. But now that it's freed, it needs to be disseminated, translated, studied, fought over in study.. but that always leads to politicizing and religifying. On a wider scale. So that accounts for why the US, why every country on the planet has Freedom of Religion in its constitution, why so few countries have official state religions anymore. At the same time, the arguments among the people are sharpening, though not likely will become military engagements anymore, except for what the Islamicists might do.

Author:  brainout [ 03 Feb 2017, 02:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Wow, what a timesaver! MS Word lets you search on the Greek letters. Dunno if Adobe will, maybe. Thing is, to paint them first then use Find.

Author:  brainout [ 04 Feb 2017, 03:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 6 updated with handy anaphora centering links.

Okay, version 6 of the Matt24-25 meter is up, and it's much easier to follow, too. Total is now 3213, which is the lowest the total can be. The more I vet it, the more it makes sense, so when Anonynomenon did it at 3213, he got the right total first.

That total is more right, cuz
3213+30=3243 AD +
4106 (converter to YOW from our BC/AD, original planned Bday for Christ had Temple/David been on time) =
7349 one year SHY of 7350, which is 1050 x 7. Has to be deliberate, right?


CHANGES are highlighted in yucky green. I won't upload the doc version yet. Still vetting the dipthongs. It's due to the dipthongs and a few of the variants which I mislisted, that the seven syllables had to be subtracted. I strongly suspect any further changes will be self-cancelling, so if you see a syllable needing to be cut, there's somewhere near by one which is under counted.

But YOU decide.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 06 Feb 2017, 06:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I was looking online to see if there were more Christian organizations that recognized life at birth, and I found something noteworthy.

In the parable of the Wise vs. the Foolish Virgins, Jesus Christ Himself tells us that fully half of Christendom will not have enough of the Holy Spirit in them [oil in their lamps] to meet the Bridegroom [Christ] when He has been late for the wedding.


I was really just skimming through their page for some more Bible verses to debunk the "pro-life" propaganda, and that really caught my eye, since it ties to the meter and our current political situation.

Author:  brainout [ 06 Feb 2017, 13:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

FANTASTIC. This really helps, thank you!

Author:  brainout [ 18 Feb 2017, 02:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Updated version 6 for 'prophetic center', download link within this post.

Update on the meter. I'm trying to find the prophetic historical-trend 'center', and thought it was simply the English Reformation, since that was the third amen legw humin. But I miscalculated it. There are six occurrences, so the 'middle' is not 3, but 3-4, so there are two on either side.

So Christ via Matthew is saying the nexus of history STARTED with the English Reformation, but that 'center' doesn't END until (gulp).. the end of Matt25:12.

Here's the link for the latest version: . Am still working on the doc, so I don't want to upload it yet.

Now you'll find intra-doc links. Click on the 'Notes' link, and you'll see there two center maps of the verses: first one is in anaphora order (in order of first appearance in the text), and the second is in verse order (in order of actual appearance of all references in the text).

I missed a couple in prior versions, so this count is more accurate.

First, you go by anaphora. How many occurrences? If say seven, then the fourth one is center for that anaphora. So those are shaded in the first set of links in the Notes. But then you also count the total number of occurrences and then find the center of it (i.e., the 24th occurrence is center, as the total occurrences including same-verse occurrences, is 47). The link listings make it easy to count.

The goal is to find overlap, a kind of 'nest' which contains ALL the types of anaphora sandwiched within the bookends of one anaphora. Right now, that seems to be the same amen legw humin running from Matt24:47-25:12. But parousia doesn't occur within that 'nest'. All the others, do. So I wonder if that's the real center.

Am still trying to figure it out.

Point is, like Day of the Lord and Greek drama, to find the nexus of the'play' of history, into which all prior is purposed, and out from which all results flow. That's how Revelation is written, that's how Paul did his epainon anaphora (centering on Constantine) in Ephesians, so I bet he got it from Matt.

Mark's doing the same thing, but with only three anaphora, so the centers might be easier to map. But those will be for the Byzantine Empire, not global. Matthew's, is global.

I don't know if Luke uses the anaphora nests. Paul did, so maybe Luke didn't. Have yet to test Luke.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 18 Feb 2017, 06:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Now, 950 is just after κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ. If you add 950+560=1510 which is just after μακάριος.

.....and, 1510+490=2000, terminating with ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν which ends the year 2030 AD.

So we are going to end a hidden 560+483+7 of some kind?

Author:  brainout [ 18 Feb 2017, 07:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I don't know. Bible does run embedded 70's, 490s, 1050s, not merely the qualifying ones.

Qualifying ones are contiguous, every 490 years (no interrupting 70s) someone must spiritually mature enough to renew the next 490, wash rinse repeat.

Same for the 1050. The begats in Gen5, 7, 11 plot this out, so when you map the years, you see Enoch was born just when the 490 signified by Seth's birth, ran out. Noah's 490 ran out so Abraham had to mature 54 years early (and did).

Even so, Moses in Gen 1 and Psalm 90 makes a point about writing 1050 from the Flood, which isn't a historical or qualifying 1050. Christ died the 980th anniversary of the Temple had it not been razed, and the 1470th anniversary of the original Exodus. So there are other 490 trackings. We know of other 70 trackings from Jeremiah 25 and 29.

So what would your numbers be tracking? Dunno, but it's hard to believe the value is coincidental.

Then again, maybe the time plays back to some Biblical date in the past. Like, 1050 flood, tho I can't find any yet.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 18 Feb 2017, 07:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

I don't know yet, but the 1050 starts with "and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory". That is a bold way to start a new 1050. Then it ends with our Lord's reply to the foolish: ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν. That is dramatic.

Then after the Lord finishes the discipline, its like a type of Millennium with thirds spiritual.

Author:  brainout [ 18 Feb 2017, 14:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Yeah, could be. I forgot to include the Iesous and Christos references as synonymal with all those kurios and numphios, to find the center. Am doing it with Mark right now, but my brain keeps going out.

The idea is to first sum all the synonymal occurrences, then find its middle. Say there are 11. Then 6 is the middle, so that 5 is on either side. But when the number is even, you have to PAIR to get even on either side. Yeah, so Mark knows that, and did that in Mark 13:21 to make it easy to find. But v.20 has to be paired too, since the sum of the synonyms in Mark for Lord/Christ/son ends up being 8. Clever way to stress the HU.

How that same thing works in Matt, I don't yet know. Maybe you'll find it.

Point is, the meaning of Matt25:12 is much more severe than I'd thought. Sorry!

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 18 Feb 2017, 22:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering

Here is what I hope is a complete list of synonymal nouns used for our Lord in Matt 24-25. The synonyms are numbered, but I also included other phrases and terms that do not represent Christ. I'm still working on the list, so it might grow a bit more.

1) ὁ Ἰησοῦς 24:1

2) βλέπετε 24:2b

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 24:2c

3)τὸ σημεῖον 24:3d

4) τῆς σῆς παρουσίας 24:3d

5) ὁ Ἰησοῦς 24:4

6) Βλέπετε 24:4b

τῷ ὀνόματί μου 24:5a

7) ὁ χριστός 24:5b

8) ὁρᾶτε 24:6

τὸ ὄνομά μου 24:9c

9) ἴδητε 24:15

10) ὁ χριστός 24:23

11) σημεῖα 24:24a

12) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:27b

13) σημεῖον 24:30a

14) τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:30a

15) ὄψονται 24:30c

16) τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:30c

17) ἴδητε 24:33

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι 24:34

18) ὁυἱός 24:36c

19) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:37b

20) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:39b

21) ὁ κύριος 24:42a

22) ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:44

23) ὁ κύριος 24:45a

24) ὁ κύριος 24:46

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι 24:47a

25) ὁ κύριος 24:48

26) ὁ κύριος 24:50

27) τοῦ νυμφίου 25:1b

28) τοῦ νυμφίου 25:5a

29) Ἰδοὺ 25:6

30) ὁ νυμφίος 25:6

31) ὁ νυμφίος 25:10a

32) κύριε 25:11

33) κύριε 25:11

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:12b

34) ἄνθρωπος 25:14

35) τοῦ κυρίου 25:18

36) ὁ κύριος 25:19

37) κύριε 25:20b

38) ἴδε 25:20b

39) ὁ κύριος 25:21

40) τοῦ κυρίου 25:21b

41) κύριε 25:22a

42) ἴδε 25:22b

43) ὁ κύριος 25:23a

44) τοῦ κυρίου 25:23b

45) κύριε 25:24b

46) ἄνθρωπος 25:24b

47) ὁ κύριος 25:26a

48) ὁυἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 25:31a

49) ὁ βασιλεὺς 25:34a

50) κύριε 25:37b

51) εἴδομεν 25:37b

52) εἴδομεν 25:38

53) εἴδομεν 25:39

54) ὁ βασιλεὺς 25:40a

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:40b

αἰώνιον 25:41b

55) κύριε 25:44a

56) εἴδομεν 25:44b

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:45b

αἰώνιον 25:46

αἰώνιον 25:46

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