FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

I watched your videos and I think the last half of the chapter are forecasted historical trends, but I cant say for sure until I continue with the timeline. I think 119 has a lot to do with the Angelic Conflict heating up, I mean that is what 120 represents (judgment due to rampant evil), right? What do you think about the connection to Gen 1???

I'd like to talk more about the themes, but I can barely keep my eyes open. I need too catch up on sleep.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Understood. I've been obsessed with it too. In fact, just now noticed something:

119+168+189=476 same meter as Daniel 9 which you remember, but also

126+308=434 which is also in Daniel 9 (twice, first in Daniel's meter then the famous 62 weeks' reply) and was Paul's total meter for Eph1:3-14.

The two references and their ties to Isaiah 53, Psalm 90, Noah (Gen 7 and 8) are too bald to be coincidental or math errors. This has to be our smoking gun. No wonder God hired you to do this one.

More shocking: remember GeneYrs.xls and how Christ dies on the 1470th anniversary of the original Exodus? Well guess what? 560+476+434=1470!

And guess what again? Mary used 217 meter so that's how the Lord closes the chapter too, and then look: 217x2=434! Guess you've got all the proof you need that your total meter count is right!!

GET REST, k?

said in your videos.

119 is clearly growth under persecution. The connection to Gen 1:1-5 paints a picture of violent conflict.

168 seems to have something to do with misunderstanding the chronology of prophecies. Kinda like post-millennialism. Where is 168 in other meters???

189 is 21 more than 168, so maybe by this point the Church has learned not to follow the snake oil prophets. I guess it means growing out of doctrinal naivety, learning not to spit in God's face. Isaiah 53:5-10 uses 189 to show how Jesus was put to grief for our sins, but when he returns, the tribes will mourn for the Messiah they pierced. That is an obvious reference to Isaiah. So for the Church, 189 is realizing that Jesus died for us, and sparks an appreciation for that.

126 is definitely playing off of Isaiah 53:2..."tender shoot". For the Trib believers, this parable is a clear warning to watch for the return of the tender shoot, to know the season. Then Isaiah 53:8..."And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land"....notice how Jesus says "this generation will not pass", "and heaven and earth will pass"
The 112 portion of the fig tree parable has a lot to do with recognizing the seasons, and the heavens and earth. It goes nicely with the 112 of Gen 1:12-18.

308 of course, has to do with Noah, but Jesus uses it to emphasize alertness. For Noah, watching for dry land. For Great Trib believers, alertness in watching for Christ. For Church, alertness in being ready for the Rapture. Paul's use of 308 is more complicate, like looking at the end result.

217 is 70+147. The 70 in verse 45-46 is indication that faithful servants will mature, since 70 is a voting period for believers to mature. The 147 looks like its in the Magnificat (verse 52) "He puts to flight, those of haughty men by means of their own thinking, beliefs; He lowers the powerful from their thrones". That statement is a Smoking Gun of its own. Jesus uses 147 syllables to describe how He will personally put the wicked servants to shame.
As a whole, the 217 of Matt 24 matches the 217 of the Magnificat; overcomers will rule, cosmic believers will lose their throne. In Luke 1:76, Zecharia uses 217 to identify John the Baptist as a servant 'preparing the way for our Lord'.

THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!!! I'm willing to bet that the Meter is how the Trib Believers will super mature in within 7 years. If this was taught in Church today....well, I'd like to think a lot more would grow up.

Let me know what your thoughts are.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I've seen a 168 but don't recall where. Two 84's, though, so it need not be anywhere else to be meaningful.

70+147 isn't especially meaningful, but the 40 ellipsis IS. Mary's 217 stops at Christ age 56, 40 yrs from Mill. Matt 24 has 40 added by Matthew.

434 years before Christ was scheduled to die, Malachi was written. I'm not sure all of why He's using 217x2. It cannot be coincidental.

Matthew used 476 and 427 for his datelines in Matt 1.

So you think there is a 40 between the 70 and 147??? I'm pretty sure there is an ellipsis in that particular spot, but I don't know if its 40. Jesus is separating the good servants (70) from the evil (147). So there should be a number to act as a spacer. By the time we reach the 70+147, Jesus' age at 96 would have been way overshot. I think the point of these historical trends is to show that Church would collectively vote to completely overshoot the 4200 schedule.

I think the 70 is especially meaningful in the sense of maturity BECAUSE of its relationship to 147...good servant vs bad servant.

I got a few ideas to test, but I have to talk it over with God first, then sleep on it. I'll let you know tomorrow.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, infra-text ellipses can exist, but they always balance to something in the total. Isaiah 53 had some of those. More often, the ellipses are equidistances fore and aft of the block of text. But yeah, if Isa 53 can use two infra ellipses, anyone can.

Isaiah total with ellipses was meant as First David birth to last David death, so was 1078, with 252 ellipsis between 52:15 and 53:1 (diff being when David died at age 77 and when Isaiah is counselling Hezekiah in 714 BC). Second ellipsis was 364, just after Isa 53:10 (covering intertestamental period), picking up again with the last 70 years (starting at 33BC which of course this Matt24 is tagging too).

Big patterns are 560x3+7. Individualized 84+63+21+70+84+28+105+105=560 +119+168 (two eighty-fours) +189 = 476 + 126+308=434 +217 so 560+476+434+217, with the sum of the first 3 = 1470, the 490x3rd anniv of orig Exodus, when Christ actually died (to the very day).

If you've got Bibleworks' fonts you can examine the other meters via http://www.brainout.net/LukeDatelineMeters.htm Else pdf. First two pages also have a precis map for all Chapter 1 meters I've done so far

I'm pretty sure the Lord is creating a new Genesis. 1050 was the total by the end of what we call Gen 1, but syntactically it goes on until 2:3, totalling then 1141 syllables. Seems like the Lord is creating a new one beginning 30 AD, but adding 560 to 1050 and then deducting 14. Not sure why adding another 560. THEN adding the 91 again.

Notice how the theme of 70+147 summarizes that of vs 1-14. Its a bookend, similar to what Isaiah did with the twin 133's (from prophecy to reality).

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, I'll go look at it. BTW, I have made but not yet posted a lot more Matt 24 vids, colorcoding in the later ones, the NASB trans for the sevened 'paragraphs' to show how meter elucidates text meaning (since many are so unfamiliar with the idea, they think I'm talking stupid Bible codes). LOL finally got my onscreen recorder to work on the laptops.

Playlist made, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWhe4wg ... 4fmi3Xs3Yf

Will be posting the other vids over the weekend. Somehow I got exhausted by all this (I always fall asleep when doing the meter), so just woke up now. Gimme some hours, I don't want to spam the videos, but load them up a few at a time.

yeah. I'm still pretty exhausted too. I never really got enough rest, but thank God for Saturday. I think tomorrow, I'll really learn the full meaning of the Sabbath, lol.
Just let me know what you think about vs 1-14 being CONTEXTUAL BOOKENDS with the 70+147. Don't worry about number patters right now, just syntax and context.

I'm also going to try and establish a timeline with at least the first half tomorrow, I'll post the doc, when I get somewhere with it.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, well I see the text tie, but not meter tie. Total count is 560-105 through v.14, and that last metered paragraph even at 70+147 (why 147), not ringing any bells. If we say the 70 is meant to overlap (but where else in Bible is that technique followed?) then 455+147=602, what does that mean?

I guess I'm not following why you think this is important.

Because, I think the ellipsis is 308. That's an idea that I had last year, but I had no way to back it up. Now it makes much more sense.

70+308=378. That 378 is in Genesis 1:1-13....the separation of water from dry land (the violent sea of people from the nikonti standing on Christ as a bedrock foundation) and the every tree baring fruit after its own kind (winners produce the works of the spirit, losers produce stubble...parable of the vine dresser)...the key is sorting by separation, and what separates the cosmic believers from the spiritual is spiritual alertness/readiness (hence the 308).

Here is the finishing touch: 308+147=455...bookending the first 455 of verses 1-14.

If with the 308 ellipsis, it creates a speculative palindrome (308+70+308). The metered 308 emphasizes alertness, the elliptical 308 works with the 70 to show sanctification, and with the 147 to bookend the entire chapter.

I thought I was wrong, but the idea keeps following me. I'm worried that it might be an internal bias.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, then you have to test against the total. 1687 +308? 1995, which is 105 shy of 2100. Meaning? It has to have meaning. Ellipses are designed to convey doctrinal meaning like anything else. So what would it be? It will be specific, and that's what you'd have to prove.

I know. That's what I plan on working on tomorrow. In my first attempt, last year, the 308 had something to do with the feud between Bloody Mary and Queen Elizabeth. The result was the end of the persecution of the Protestants by the Catholics. The idea is the "wicked servant beating his fellow servant", and as a result, losing his throne. I realize that the Protestant Reformation went stale fast, but without the Protestants, there would be no America, no R.B.Thieme, no freedom of thought. I'll have to find my notes from last year to give you specifics.

I saw your videos. I came to some very similar conclusions myself. The part with the sun turning black and the moon not giving light; I think the moon is called the bride of the sun in one of the Psalms, so it could be a 'Pastor-congregation' relationship. Because Pastors blackout (doctrinally), the congregation does not give its reflecting light, therefore the Stars of Heaven fall from the kingdom (believers don't grow, therefore they go to outer darkness), and the Power class of heaven is restructured (the seats of aborted kings need to be filled).

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, well the argument claiming a specific future period will have to be compelling, since so far there is NO timeline provided, but only sevened paragraphs of trends for CA. Even so, who knows, we'll never live long enough to find all the ways this meter rhetorical style is used, so have to consider every hypothesis...

Here's another thought to keep in mind: The Lord goes FULL CIRCLE when he reaches v.45. Meaning, 1470 is the number of years from initial Exodus to His Actual Death, to the very day. 1470 syllables from the start of v.1 to the end of v.44, so on one accounting that's his starting point. EXODUS theme: Israel leaves Egypt, He leaves the world, topic is about Church and later the world, leaving history as we know it, instead being gathered into the Mill at 2nd Advent.

So it's a big picture. But why the 217? Doubled, that's 434. As if Israel's history was the focus of the first 1470 (HE is the purpose of history), and then ellipsis of 217x2? At both ends, traces to nothing pre-Exodus of import. But what if 217 standing for CA, maybe updating it, and no ellipsis other than the 40-years-to-Mill endpoint? So Paul uses 434 because it's a doubling pun?

Or what if that 217, akin to what you're starting to think, is a kind of State of the Christian Union address? Since Dan9:24-27 is 231, and He's saying that at his exit, the accounting balance remains the 14? Tying to Mary at the same time, since the Trib is really Chanukah II, another claim of Messiah Returned?

I haven't had much time to work on this today. The 1470 is obviously exodus, but can we find an event corresponding to that around 1500 AD??? I spent some time looking, but couldn't find anything. If we can find something, that would rule out an ellipsis prior to the 1470th syllable.

sorry, wish I had more to bring to the table here.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Im posting this now so that I can remember it later as I compile a timeline. If 63 is indeed a second dateline, then 30 AD+63=93 AD or if you want, 4199 YoW. That's pretty close to John's writing of Revelation. In fact, the disciples are asking Jesus about the timing and sign of His return, and the Book of Revelation is exactly that, in detail.

So maybe, Matt 24 was written in 31 AD, months after Jesus' death.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

No, John dated Rev at 88/89 AD, http://www.brainout.net/JohnDatelineMeters.pdf . Unless you find something wrong with my parsing (pls check).

That still doesn't rule out a 31AD actual date, for the FISCAL might render it 31, at the start of the year. Since we are using calendar not sacred nor civil Jewish year, we would still have it be 30 in our math.

Your parsing looks good to me. I forgot that John wrote when Trib was supposed to start, not end. But still, 31AD+63= 94 AD, so maybe thats tagging when Mill was supposed to start. That fits with the disciples' questions.

I also notice that John used 364 syllables in Rev 1. So is John writing on Rosh Hashanah, with 364 days of the year remaining???

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Re 364: Well, seems like he's actually saying Noah (creation) can exit the boat (Noah=rest, remember), history ends, the Romans 8 pregnancy is ended at last. Am hoping that your study of Matt24 will shed light on Rev metering.

Yeah, could be a 94 tag too, but remember they wouldn't call it that. 94 would be Christ's AGE, so would be mid-Trib when the Abomination gets set up.

Varro's calendar was being used since Augustus. Wasn't a law yet when Christ spoke or Matthew wrote. But it has the same 4-year error our modern BC/AD does, and frankly is the cause of our error. Because, Roman historians all use the Varronic calendar, which has 4 extra years padded into it. So Rome's age is actually 4 years less than they were using, and they KNEW the error was there. So maybe when Bible uses dates, it corrects for the error. Not sure, but seems like sometimes, adjustments are made, not enough proof yet to say for sure.

Ok, so lets try to narrow it down a little. The 63 is really 42+21, so what would be the importance of tagging 73 AD and 94 AD, or to be more specific, 4,179 YoW and 4,200 YoW? I know the disciples where asking about the End of the Age, so that could be a reference to 4,200, but what was special about 4,179?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, if the 63 is really 42 then 21 that changes the dynamic of the meter. I didn't see a 42 occurring. If it's valid, then 73 would be either Masada or Temple Destruction, depending on whether Varro is left in or adjusted out. So you'd not have 94 in any event. John datelines his Gospel as 7 years after Temple Down.

The Lord would be age 73 when Temple down. All these numbers overlap because of the 4-year dating problem.

Well, this is what the 63 looks like.

3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen,42

and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”21

Its one paragraph, but its sub-sevened, so I assumed it was a pregnant dateline. It works pretty well as a pregnant dateline (tying to Masada and original Mill) the same way as the opening 40+44.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, I was thinking about your first draft. I counted the syllables and came up with the same result in your new draft.

So technically the two datelines are 84 and 42, which is even more pregnantly tagging Isaiah 52:13-15, and 53:12, to remind the hearers of it. The 63 is Isaiah 53:9-10, so cross references the meaning there as well.

So what is 42 years prior to, and after, his talking in say 30/31 AD (Roman historians today prefer the slash date system).

Ok, well 42 years after 31 AD is probably Masada in 73 AD, the Temple fall was already tagged in the first 40 syllables, so Masada being the end of the quasi-trib would be the next fitting date, I would think so.

But since 21 is part of the paragraph, wouldn't that be included in the dateline to bring it to 63 syllables?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

No, the 42 is a separate and actually the most common dateline number in Bible I've found so far, after 56.

Gotta resolve for 12BC. LOL Quuirinius was consul then. Setup for Luke. But this has to have TEMPLE relevance, so need such an event. Augustus was appointed Pontifex Maximus, setup for Paul's clever use of kurios in eulogetos ho theos kai pater tou kuriou hemon Iesou Christou (sorry, I don't have the proper fonts on this laptop).

Remember that passage saying that the Temple had been under construction 46 years, when Christ said He'd rebuild it in 3 days? John 2:20, in the first year of His Official Ministry, so then 27AD (depending on fiscal), then 19BC again depending on fiscal, same time as Peter uses in his dateline 1 Peter (I assume you know that material).

I bet that's related, but then we have the 4 year problem to deal with. Herod's construction was in fits and starts. Probably something in Josephus, but that guy is so notoriously wrong in his dates, I don't want to trust him: he couldn't even get the Adamic timeline or David's death age right.

I've been looking for hours. I cant find anything for 12 BC. Do you have any ideas, or history websites you might recommend?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We're typing at the same time. I'm editing my post. Fell asleep, as I always do when trying to figure out meter. It overwhelms me. Am working on it again now, editing my prior post.

ok, so assuming for the moment that 42 is the second dateline. So the 21 following the 42 is added to 31 AD? Is that how it works. I don't know that I quite understand what comes after the dateline.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, that's what we have to find out, what the rest of the meter means. The 42 aft 30 is clear (or 31, depending on fiscal used), but prior is an issue. Datelines set doctrinal themes for the text. Has to be something related to Temple. Aft is clearly Temple, Masada or just Temple Down, depending on whether you use our calendar (Varro's) or Bible's internal BC/AD which adjusts for Varro's 4-yr error, sometimes.

I put a Twitter #Bible query re 12BC in case God causes someone to find it. I like you, can't find any specific event but surely there is one. I thought there was another meter reference in other NT books to 12BC but cannot find it. I DID find the 147, in Galatians, see http://www.brainout.net/LukeDatelineMeters.pdf or htm first page.

So right now I'm stuck.

The whole passage seems to be segmented into 1470 +217, with the latter a closing bookend to Magnificat. There are quasi-palindromes. 84+42=126 which is repeated, of course the 42+21, but 63+70 as another 133, so you really are onto something. Text subdivides into historical trends, obviously for CA which is the first and larger 'tribulation' on slow burn (Dan9:26 Groundhog day or as Robbie Dean put it, 'Time Bubble'), inserted into what should not have been a gap of more than 50 years (Gentile Time won't be part of the 490 in Daniel). So these quasi-palindromes elucidate the text to show a kind of insertion quality, for CA. But they seem trends, not specific years.

Gen1 meter seems to be a retrospective exposition, 'how we got here', with Moses dating his meter always in terms of past events giving rise to him writing the First Book. Is Christ maybe doing that too? Since the 1470 dates backward to the original exodus, versus Moses penning Pentateuch in year 40 of Exodus? So then the subsevens are maybe all backward dates? I dunno, just thinking out loud. Not sure the meaning of the Gen1 meter is as I depicted it, only sure of the numbers and the plausibility of that hypothesis.

The lesser subsevens all have meaning just like they do in other passages, so what's the 'story' they tell to interrelate with the text? Not sure yet. God will let us know. This is the hardest part of dealing with the meter.

I'm stuck too, but I'm mapping forward from 31 AD. I made two comparative charts, one using 42 as second dateline, the other using 63.

If we use 42 as a second dateline, the results are redundant whether you factor in Varro's error or not; either 70 AD will be tagged twice, or 73 AD will be tagged twice. I don't see the point in that, and it doesn't fit the text well in my opinion.

I'm more in favor of chart B, but I've hit a dead end. Take a look, maybe it will inspire thought.

I've got some ideas to test tomorrow, but its to late now. I'm calling it a night.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, I looked at your docx. Could be something like that, but you're going past the two datelines. Usually there are only two, unless the whole passage is a timeline. Which, it could be, but my brain is out, I see the meter tagging doctrines and other Bible passages, not yet any firm annual timeline. But, maybe there is one, just talk with God, He obviously hired you to do this.

Thought-jogging ideas, here are some important numbers:

The 560+476=1036, 14 shy of the 1050 in Gen 1's close (Translated chapter ending). I don't know if the Lord's 560 is playing on Moses' 560, which was about yrs since Jacob went to Haran, or if He's parallelling that 'exodus'. The 476 is clearly playing on Daniel 9's meter (from v.4 to 14, where Daniel closes his legal indictment recitation of the Kings). Idea that 14 years remain 'unpaid' on Israel's time. Text is end verse 31. So maybe can read as retrospective exposition, since both (maybe) Gen1 and (definitely) Daniel 9 are doing that.

That takes you, from a starting point date of original Exodus (since the total is 1470 to 30AD), to 404 BC. Why? It was the end of the Peleponnesian War, and 70+ years after Esther. Playing on the Daniel Man of Time? Why? Malachi was penned maybe around 397, end of the voting period. So this would be seven years prior. What was going on in Israel then? Guess the book of Malachi will tell us. But we've not parsed it yet.

Of course, the next 434 would then take you to 30AD.

So that's full circle, same rhetorical meter style as Daniel 9, similar to Psalm 90; the 1050 is the full-circle point in Gen 1 (there is always a full-circle point in large meters).

If so, then the 217 goes forward in time, likely syllable by year, but what if it is also sevened? As in 217x7? I'm just speculating. The product is 1519, before adjusting for the likely 40 ellipsis. So if we are to play with some specific AD year, it could be 1549 or even 1589, assuming the 40 isn't added prior to sevening.

WAIT! I get it now! Well, at least on one 'layer' of usage:

* Daniel 9:24-27 is 231 (just look at the doc in vid desc, it's short and clear, no need to watch video).
* Magnificat deducts 14, so 217. Timeline picks up where Daniel left off in his Man of Time, using his 73 meter, Mary picks up at initial Chanukah , since Christ would be born on Chanukah 4BC per Haggai2, then measuring forward to His Age 56, 40 years prior to Mill (as I believe you already know). Paul datelines his meter there for Eph1:3-14.
* Christ thus closes out for CA, as a Chanukah II theme, as a bookend, enfolding Dan 9:24-27 as a pregnancy idea (source of Paul's frequent use of plerow, probably, notably in Gal 4:4 which is a play on Chanukah = Saturnalia) -- Matt 24:45-51, also at 217, in your reparsed pdf.

So He's TAGGING as a 'sandwich'. So now we read Mary first, then Daniel, then what He says as a kind of 'map' for CA: 217+231+217=665? 95 sevens. Maybe the total is not important. But the idea, is.

Should be more meaning, of course. But the Chanukah II is clearly in view, as that's the theme of Rev. Sanctification of the Defiled/Destroyed Temple, Eph2 walls, something like that!

I shouldn't be allowed to see this, and live.

I thought all meters where timelines. If not a timeline, then would it be purely doctrinal?

I also noted this: 84+63=147, acting as an opening bracket, which is then closed at the end with the final 147.

Both 147 involve servants/disciples recieving instruction and revelation, to servants who desire to know what to watch for.

The disciples went to Jesus in private, just as servants will be separated and jugded as indiviuals.

Then we have the 21+70+84+28+105=308, as precidence for my hypothetical 308 ellipsis toward the end.

So the 308 has to do with watching? How do you watch? By abiding in Christ, watching for false prophets, false christs, etc, as not to be mislead.

So the first 147 initiates servitude, then the following 308 syllables instruct how to watch as part of service, then the 308 in reference to Noah is the command to watch as a servant, then the elliptical 308 would be the reality of watching/serving, leading into the final 147 which is the fulfillment/judgement of discipleship.

Thats the best I can explain it for the time being. Just look at the 308s and 147s and see for yourself.

I feel that the 560 is telling us to use this historically, for forecasting hystorical trends. Need more time to think.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Yeah, well I was trying to catch up on sleep when this hit me. Maybe the Lord is balancing the time books, so yes it's a timeline but like Gen1 is under the text to explain WHY Matt24 prophecy has to come to pass, juridically? Look:

1440 BC, original Exodus. Moses was 80 years old. So, Matthew tacks on 40 to create Matt 24:1, since Moses lived another 40 years. (Kinda no brainer accounting, really. Daniel did the same thing for David's reign, in accounting time from Dan 9:6 when he begins the retrospective exposition on Israel's sins via kings recounting, that's what tipped me off to the style here.)

So now it really is a straight historical chronology, since past is prologue, to explain why the future is a juridical payback on the past, just as Daniel 9:24 promised.

So next up, the time of Joshua, 44 years. Thus 84, cute pun.

Now we have to check the Book of Joshua and Judges, which I've not yet done, but presumably the next 350-44 syllables cover that time. You'll see Paul do a similar accounting later on, in Acts 13, starting at verse 15. So maybe this metering was a common accounting of time, for Paul is talking to unbelieving Jews.

So all your subsevens are historical benchmarks we should be able to find in Bible. So look at this genius accounting, maybe something like this: 1440-40 (Moses dies) -44 (Joshua dies plus some interregnum) -42 (Judge1) -21 (Judge2) -21 (Judge3) -70 (Judge4) -44 (Judge5) -40 (Judge6), -28, total 350 years, same as #syllables in Psalm 90. Hardly a coincidence.

After that, your bookended twin 105's; you've subdivided the second into 35 and 70. So what and who do these years cover? Have fun playing with that.

Upshot is, 490 years after the Exodus, Temple Dedicated, 950 BC, 1Kings 9. then follows a 70. That's 560 years, and at this point it's 880 BC.

Next in the meter? 476, same as Daniel uses (sum of years=syllables in Dan 9:4-14). So now we're down to 404 BC (why that's a benchmark I'm not yet sure). Short of the 14 already, during that time Temple went down and went back up, Esther and Nehemiah have occurred. 7 years to end of voting period (the historical 70 from 466/7 to 396/7). Seven short, because due to the 49 years the Temple was out, seven more sabbatical years are owed on them which cannot play pre-Messiah. So He's deducting the shortfall because He IS alive now, and the 62nd week has only begun, in 30 AD. Technically He's supposed to live another 7 years to finish that unpaid seven on the sabbaticals, but will not, so He's ACCOUNTING for it.

Imagine knowing your own death and explaining why you'll die in advance, to others. That's what He might be doing, here.

Because next, he uses the 434, which brings us to.. 30 AD.

Now the problem is, technically 950 BC was SEVEN YEARS AFTER the beginning of a new historical 490: Temple was dedicated 3156 YoW rather than 3150, implying it was dedicated 7 years late on the historical timeline, although it was dedicated by the deadline for Moses' 490 Time Grant (which ran out 950 BC shown in GeneYrs.xls which I believe you already know).

So this might be our smoking gun re when that extra 7 began, and the Lord is accounting for it.

As for your question about timelines, not all metered passages have to be timelines. And if timelines, not all have to be prophetic annual trackers. Maybe this one is, but right now I merely see the accounting usage, as described above. So maybe what you're trying to do is still in some way correct, but if so it will fit like a jigsaw puzzle. Kinda like the acounting version of the meter does, here. Play with it, see what God shows you.

I figured it out. It was so simple that I could just slap myself for overlooking it. The 455+105+119+168+189+126+308+70 (maybe 308 ellipsis)+147 are chronological ages of historical trends counting forward from 31 AD. Just compare the year ranges to your genyrsxls chart. The trends fit Matt 24 like a glove. I couldn't find single events, because they are trends.

31-486 AD (455)--Wars/Rumors...

Judean wars and rebellions
10 times of Christian persecution
Constantine's monopolization of Christianity
Merovigian Dynasty rises as new home for Christians

486-591 AD (105)--Voting Season

Monasteries provide environment for maturity and copying of bibles
Columban mission

591-710 AD (119)--Great Tribulation (this is where it gets really interesting)

Roman-Byzantine War ends and focus goes back to Jerusalem
Rome takes Jerusalem in Parthian War
Chosroes authorizes rebuilding of Temple
Islam begins to spread
Islam takes Jerusalem
Dome of the Rock is built

That's were I stopped taking notes to do my happy dance. You already mapped out the trends in geneyrs. Matt 24 just proved them to be true .

I gotta get some sleep tonight. I'll refine my notes and hopefully post them tomorrow, then I'll try mapping retro-active trends.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Wow. Well, if this interpretation is true, then the NT books' meters will be adding to it or clarifying it in some way, and the same patterns will repeat. We have to be careful not to make the mistake of one swallow equalling a summer.

The 490 is repeated and played on throughout Bible always with the same root meaning. So that part is no problem. But for these other numbers to mean what you're claiming, there will have to be repeated evidence of them being used the same way. Same idea as proving a keyword in Bible, is to prove a key number's doctrinal value.

Also, a true prophetical timeline will COMMENT on those future events, as prophecy always does, with keywords and usually BITING prose.

There will also be a meter theme. Like in Psalm 90, 350 syllables = years = 70 x 5 1050s, plan of Time. Isaiah 53 metrical theme was First David to Last David, 1078 years=syllables, including the two ellipses of 252 and 364 (which God will use in his Reply to Daniel).

So what's the cumulative meter theme in 1687? Or, that plus what ellipses of Time? Only one way to know, to see how the individual meters and text, interact...

Sevened Patterns here from your reparsed chapter pdf:

verses 1-2 =84. First cum 7, so is dateline. Matt adds v.1, narrative 40 syllables, Apostles admiring temple, then Lord's words, how not one stone will be on another.
verse 3a, 42, 2nd cum 7, so is dateline. Disciples asking when these things will happen,
verse 3b, 21, sign of coming end of age.
verse 4, another 21, Lord warns don't be deceived,
verses 5-6 = 70, warning many falsely claim to be The Christ amidst wars and rumors of wars.
verses 7-9 = 84 ending bookend, wars and earthquakes etc. but the beginning of birthpangs (see Rom 8).

At this point the total (for bookends are always special paragraphs) = 84+42+21+21+70+84=322. It's quasi-palindromic, and factors for later meters are inside this one. (84, 126, 147, 168, 308).

verse 10, 28 how many believers will fall away (seed parable reminder) and hate each other.
verses 11-14, 105 how lying and deceiving others, Law-lessness (anti-doctrine), love grow cold, but stick with it until the end to be delivered from disaster (later in Heb 10 end), for preaching/witnessing the good news will continue to the whole world, all nations -- and then the end will come.

New total is 84+42+21+21+70+84=322 + 28+105 = 455, but

verses 15-18 (fix the math, no cum sevening until) = 105, too: text is on when you see the Abomination.. don't even stop to go home, just run.

Sum through v.18 becomes 560, very familiar in Bible. Soifit's meant to be 590 AD, the above text will have biting relevance to events during that time, syllable by year like Paul later does in Eph1:3-14 for the first 434 years of Church. And, maybe this would be the seminal chapter from which Paul draws his style.

560-322=238, which is 70 less than 308. 70+56 (for the 57) is 126, a later meter.

So need to do that kind of analysis for the rest of the chapter, to see how text and sevened meter interrelate, to see the 'trends'. For if prophetical, the text will interact with the future time, as I tried to show in the Peter and Paul videos. Text ends up being very satirical and biting, if you have a real prophetical timeline expressed.

Well, the Temple is only mentioned in the opening passage, but it seems like the theme might be Replacing the Temple. The slow burn tribulations of the Church Age seems to separate the humble from the arrogant, and forces believers to either mature or degenerate. That would explain the 147 bracketing the beginning and end of the Chapter. The end result being Rev 3:12.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, I see what you're saying but I don't see 147 bracketing the chapter. It's not standalone in the beginning. You're taking separate meters 84 then 42 then 21 to get it. That's fine, and even clever; but bracket is when the same meter is used, not an addition of submeters. Moreover, what does 147 mean? I don't know, do you? As a meter, pan-Bible? What is its doctrinal meaning? Meter is not merely a counting mechanism for the Divine calendar. It always elucidates the text. So what is 147?

Try comparing the text in the beginning up to 147, then compare text at the ending 147, see if you can find commonalities to hint at any doctrinal meaning. I know 147 comes up in other dateline meters, as we've discussed prior, but I've not seen it enough to know what possible doctrinal significance it has. Possibly, it has an 84+42+21 causality significance, here defined? So then comparing text would be relevance, in case the 147 here is seminally defined? For we know the individual meanings of 84, 42, 21.

Yes, Replace the Temple theme, not only prophecy but policy, the very purpose of Church. It was always true that the stone building was to be replaced with Living Stones filled with Him as The Temple the temple depicts.

84+42+21=147

then


solid 147

What I see is Jesus introducing the idea of Temple destruction, with the disciples asking when and what signs to watch for.

Then the last 147 shows the end result.




So the first 147 is the destruction of the stone structure, and the last 147 is the construction of the Eternal Temple. This would only apply to the Church Age believers, so its not stated overtly, since the face value of the text is for Tribulation believers. But for the mystery Age of Church, the meter brings out a Mystery Doctrinal interpretation.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

According to the Magnificat, the 147 is;


So what do we have in the 84+42+21=147. The disciples are PROUD of Temple, and Jesus says it will be totally leveled. The reason the 147 is broken up is because the dialogue, which introduces the chapter. It looks like a bracket to me, because from syllable 147 to the end, its all about spiritual growth in an antagonistic environment.

Ephesians 1:3-6 is 56+21+7+21+28+14=147. We are elected, cleansed, and showered with Grace for His Glory. Same idea in Rev 3:12. Paul didn't use a solid 147, but he built up to it.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Okay, again you make good points. I guess I differ in that the last 147 in Matt24, seems more to be a warning that the believer will be destroyed like the 2nd Temple will be, if he doesn't grow up. Which yes, does tie to that 147 in the Magnificat text, but NOT to its meter. For one thing, there have to be a parallel 147 syllables with text that relates. Going from syllable 115 in the beginning of verse 51 in Magnificat, and ending at syllable 150 won't work. There is no 147 meter even in combination, in the Magnificat.

Luke's addition of 4 syllables, possibly to adjust for Varro's padding of 4 years in the Roman calendar (origin of our BC/AD problem), does close the end of clause 1 in verse 52, “He has brought down rulers from their thrones" .. at 147 TOTAL for the Magnificat. So meter count would go from its start, kai eipen Miriam, all the way to “He has brought down rulers from their thrones", which is not syntactically, an ending.

Yeah, I see what you mean now, thanks.

I'm looking for other occurrences of 147, but all I'm finding is Ephesians 1:3-6. Do you know where else it might be?

I still think its bracketing though. The 84+42+21 is introductory, it stands apart from the rest of the text.

edit:

Ok, so in both Ephesians and Galatians, Paul used 147 to refer to God's Glory (probably the same idea as Romans 8:28--don't know if that's metered).


Temple is supposed to glorify God, but when Israel used Temple for religion, it fell both times. So wicked servants do not glorify God and are therefore cut to pieces and cast into outer darkness, similar to how Temple was utterly destroyed. Yes, its a warning, but a warning that mirrors the Temple, and for the Bride, Temple is an Eternal status. This ties heavily to the Outer Darkness and Three Type Salvation conversations.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Well, Paul's meter starts in verse 3, which Peter tags in 1Peter. Paul's 147 ends at verse 6, and is technically 91+56, which would have a doctrinal meaning of Decree Completed (on building Temple aka Body, but also 'season') and VOTE CRITICAL. So now how does that meaning tie to the other idea of 84+42+21?

There was another 147, in Galatians. It's a dateline meter on kings vying over Anatolia, which caused Rome to gain suzerainty over the region, setup for control over Israel. That was also meaningful because Galatians were in Anatolia, idea of showing God's hand in uniting things politically, so they could get the Gospel from Paul. So I guess you could say tangentially or sotto voce, it means Temple Building, since that's Paul's main theme in all his letters. The 147 is 98+49, and the latter is pregnant for years Temple was down when Daniel prayed (Daniel's first dateline meter). The 98 is a Millennial meter, Christ in his 98th year (age 97, or maybe ON his 98th birthday) when Mill was originally scheduled to begin.

I'm beginning to get the impression that 147 is significant, alright, but as a kind of ombudsman, since we're seeing different combos of subsevens used to make it. But we need to see more occurrences.

I just had a look at what you wrote above. I didn't have time to look into it before, but now I see what you mean. So by Chanukah II, you mean Temple Replacement???

You came to that conclusion with the 217, and I did the same with the (possibly) bracketing 147's.

So from the occurrences of 147 that we have available, the only one that is not sub-sevened is Matt 24:47-51. That in itself sets it apart from Paul's usage, which usually involved God's Glorification. Verse 47-51 is good servant vs bad servant, which is the only way for believers to Glorify God (abiding in Christ).

Notice in the beginning of Matt 24:1-3

84 is the Decree for Temple fall: it is no longer Glorifying God
42 is an inquiry as to when Christ will plunder: the 42 in the context of Isaiah 53:12 (sharing the spoils)
21 what signs indicate the built up to the Glorification of Christ at His return?

What about 91+56?
91 could be Decree Completed due to Season Termination
56 why is season terminated? Due to negative volition Isaiah 53;1-3, "who has believed"

So maybe Church Age terminated due to Negative Volition.

98+49?

98 Millennium at Christ's age of 98
49 God keeps His covenant (Dan 9:4)

so 98+49 is Father keeping His promise for the Millennium for Christ's Glory and for His own Glory, yet those who Glorify His Son reap the benefits.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Yeah, could be. It's obvious God hired you for this, so whatever I say is only meant to stimulate you in your dialogue with Him. Matthew 24 has to be seminal for the NT meter patterns. I've no complete sense of what John's doing in his meters, except that he plays on Paul, but he must (like Paul) be tagging Matt 24, at least in Rev.

For me the big kicker is the whole, 1687. With what ellipses added? You think it is a forward timeline, I don't, but you may be right just the same. I've played with adding ellipses of 217 (which seems certain, bookending Magnificat), maybe an added 40 (because Matt24:1 are not Jesus' words), but then I come up with goofy endpoints if a timeline. It has to start, if a forward timeline, at 30AD or 70AD, but what if that start is verse 45, where the 217 begins? For He really is going full circle from Exodus to His Own Death Year, from v.1, if the 40 is in beginning ellipsis (versus His actual speech).

217 AD is the benchmark in Eph1:9, when Origen visits the Severan mothers to convince them to become Christian, which results in a pogrom and was the first time Peter was put on a Rome bishop list. Which was the beginning of the Rev17 harlot 'push', that became official under Constantine.

247 AD was the beginning of the Crisis of the Third Century.

But why benchmark that?

Verse 3 and part of verse 4 is also narration, so Matthew's own words are 40+42+21+11=115.


Matthew's words are:


I don't know, I get what you mean...40 syllable setting intro.

The 1470 is evident without ellipsis, and I agree, it is obvious; First Passover to Last Passover.

Beyond that, I can't comment any further until I can try to establish parallel Timelines between NT meters...perhaps Ephesians and Revelation.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I found something interesting. If you treat Matt 24 and Rev 1 meters as timelines, the years converge twice so far;

Syllable 126 in Mat 24:3a and syllable 70 in Rev 1:2a. They converge on the year 4263 YoW/154 AD (that's if Matt is writing late 4137 YoW and John in 4193 YoW).



Here is the parallel:


4263 YoW/154 AD: Maybe Polycarp's death. Wasn't he the Pastor of Smyrna? Did Paul tag him?

Then the second convergence is syllable 238 (matt 24:6) and syllable 182 (Rev 1:4) on 4375 Yow/269 AD.

Parallel:


So 4375 YoW is 269 AD????

I don't know, the convergences seemed kinda interesting, but I can't nail down anything specific. I would need to test more instances.

That's all for now.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

You want to check the math in your first sentence? Typo? We're both tired. Christ's own speech begins in verse 2.

As to your convergence post, you cannot guess on it until solving Matt 24 solo. And, when testing convergence, there must be some theme, not just a seeming coincidence of numbers. John's writing in 88 AD, so that's before Polycarp. Again, you need to know the theme of Matt24 and its own timeline first.

Fixed the math, but not sure its relevant anyways. I'm tired. Maybe Ill get some where tomorrow.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Understood. Jesus begins talking in verse 2. Matthew pads text for v.1 at 40, and there is slight padding with narrative in v.3 before the Lord speaks, including them speaking. After that, beginning with v.4 it's solid Him speaking. So test just that solid section, for some other meter-within-meter. Clues to any ellipses or meaning of the timeline should be in the padded syllable counts.

1470 is intended. 217 is intended. I don't know what ellipses to add, nor what 1687 signifies. Gotta find out, all those things.